I am Nippon Freak so i got this also

Royal Nippon Nishikii Hand Painted 9" Vase Samurai ? Pastel shading Lilac Green  £6.50

Antique Small Satsuma Geisha Handpainted Vase 4 inch  £4

I think you are better off not buying so many damaged items and maybe should invest in better quality stuff, but each to his own. Are you collecting , or buying to re-sell? 

The first two plates look like modern Japanese to me. The decorative elements, flowers , shapes, and the shade of blue are not C18th chinese.

The second dish is Japanese but first is a 19th century Kangxi 'revival' dish

Thank Sanderse and Tam

Oh, Dear. 

Do you think the second japanese dish is also not 18th century? 

🙂 Yes I agree with you Tam and in fact i made the decision to do that last week, but the temptation to bargain hunt took over.  However something terrible happened yesterday, Art studio an ebay seller sold a 17th century Plate, that was beautiful for a mere £9.99.

I watched it happen and did nothing, it has haunted me all day. Art studio is a bidamount seller so her items are legit. However i never checked that, and just assumed the plate was possibly not real because it had only 1 bid at £9.99.  I then had to attend to some domestic issues and missed the sale by a few minutes.  I only then checked everything and realised i had missed out on a genuine 17th century plate that was in immaculate condition.

About your question Tam, I am not re selling these items, I am going to repair them and just keep the broken stuff for collection. Anything that is in very good condition. I might re sell only to buy something better. However I am not an Antique dealer just a trader. I am good at buying and selling for a profit in technology but got tired of the theta effect of holding technological items.  

So i thought antiques might be a good way to re invest some of the profits. However as Julie pointed out on another thread, that at one time Blue and white transfer ware was fetched very good prices, which after reviewing Judith Millers antique guide from 1993  i have  to strongly agree, but now perhaps with a greater access, and a higher supply then was imagined before, those prices have actually gone down. 

This makes antiques a much more complicated situation, in the future it may be the case that Oriental ceramics will also suffer price depreciation. So I am not sure antiques are a guaranteed investment, a solid one yes, but there seems to be price cycles and trends like in any other industry.

 I think Peter has said this on his weekly videos several times, that because a seller on ebay has one or two genuine items does not mean that you can trust all their items. So the thing you missed might or might not have been a bargain. Tread carefully , and double check that the item is on Peter's weekly list (but of course in the past two weeks ebay has been 'replacing 'sold items with random stuff, so even the items now on Peter's newsletter are not all genuine. (not his fault).

In my experience , investing in oriental antiques is not a wise move for a beginner , because you make too many mistakes and there are too many fraudsters. I have bought so much rubbish, and some good fakes, from ebay and UK regional auction houses. You can't trust any seller's description , imo. Most people don't know what they have. And fakes from China flood every level of antique dealing. 

Download Peter's instructional youtube videos, watch them multiple times, study the weekly newsletter, and learn before you buy . I know 10 quid for a old battered plate seems cheap, but soon you have spent hundreds and not bought much at all. 

Thanks Tam,

Do you think the Kraak and Kangxi plates are fake. The first 2 plates in my origional post. They are claimed to be 18th century. You have said they are japanese? 

I am still awaiting the invoice from the seller, so might just ask the seller to cancel.

As for Peter's seller list. 

If you go the 'ASIAN ART ON EBAY' at the top of this website, 3rd from the right of the FORUM. 

If you click on this it takes you to another page, and if you scroll down then right there...Is a big yellow Auction hammer with EBAY sellers on it for all Asian. 

Click on that and Scroll down and all the sellers that are listed there, regardless if they have any items for auction are all recommended and trusted seller's.

Overtime you will encounter and learn about them. They are the bigger sellers on ebay, and there Auctions are legendary, with amazing antiques. They are legit.  

Uk Sellers:

Migularry, Skids1, alittlebitofwhatyoufancydoesugood, Byrn1o_2, Alfredceramics, artstudiogallery,babydragon,bamboon8,buckinghamshireantiques,derold3,hugh7873,gordon_gekko,it'sabeautfiulday,merlin.antiques,

peterr5664,ol.master.antiques,simoncurtis,stubbsywubbsy,

Netherlands 

Sweden 

USA 

That is most but not all of the UK sellers that are on his ebay seller list.  They are all 100% trustworthy and all very good seller's. 

The random items from Ebay that are listed everywhere on peters site, are definitely not recommended sellers. I have seen stuff there that was coming from China. They are just stuff, that is selling on ebay that looks interesting.

If you want to get all the good auctions then save the sellers from your country in your saved sellers. Artstudiogallery sold alot of stuff yesterday at bargain prices, so you can occasionally get a good deal.

Dear ShortDong,

please don't take offence, but I wholly agree with Tam.There's not much sense building a collection with cheap and damaged pieces. You will clutter your house with them but never be able to resell them with profit. I have bought many cheap things when I started collecting (by cheap I mean 50-200$), but now I save my money until I have 1000 or 2000$, which might take a year or so, and then I buy something special at one of the dealers I trust. That means less clutter in my flat but more of a chance to make an investment. It's great fun to be hunting on Ebay though and I often have to restrain myself, so I know how you feel.

Hi Shini

I agree, but i think we have to do this as part of the learning curve, there are various reasons why it is good. Of course, yes there should be a good background education first, i was learning about antiques over 20 years ago but that was just reading the Antique guides ..however regardless of my limited education in antiques...by buying some cheap items.  

1. You learn firsthand  the price trends in the market, that is important. I can be a novice but still use my own skills in marketing an ifnance to understand market trends and price ranges. 

2. Your learn the logistics of the items that are on sale, which are common and which are not as common. You learn what people  desire over what they are not so interested in. Canton enamel boxes for example,  are worth grabbing if you see them cheap. 

3. You learn the rate of supply of what is coming and going. You can learn various techniques on how to pinpoint and find the type of item you will eventually be saving up to get. 

4. Most importantly, it is essential to have actual Antiques in your possession that you can study and weigh and hold and truly get an idea of. The genuine from the fake and rest in between, handling and examining antiques over time lends an expertise that is hard to learn from academia. 

You have these pieces around you everyday and soon you just recognise  certain patterns  and motiffs with such familiarity, and a natural skill develops. 

 I agree, there is very little profit margin in reselling damaged 19th century export wares. You would probably have more success buying pieces for couple thousand dollars and reselling them for a few thousand dollars in profit. And you don't have to restrict yourself to porcelain only.... There's a lot of competition in buying chinese porcelain on ebay and usually to make a good profit you'd have to buy pieces for +10k. Quality pieces sell themselves, poor quality is hard to sell.....

Update: I wrote to the seller and asked them to cancel the order. thanks for saving me money 🙂 

Guys, I cannot thank you enough, I would have gone ahead and bought completed the invoice, and the only reason they were not fully paid for was the seller was taking almost 2 days to send me the invoice, I suspect the seller was hoping i would pay double postage. 

In any event i did some digging and indeed you guys are spot on.

Hi

Can you please cancel this order. The description is incorrect. Thank you and my apologies for any inconvenience. Hopefully i can get something else from you in the future instead.

Best Regards

David

First plate:

Is an underglaze blue and white decoration in imitation of Chinese Kangxi period (1662-1722) porcelain. Mark: "Zoshuntei Sanpo Zu "Zoshun (shop) Sanpo Made (made by Sanpo) - a fictitious trade name of Hisatomi Yojibei Masayasu. Good quality, mid 19th century, Japanese export ware. Mid 19th century.

Not a bad plate but certainly not what i expected, 

the second plate is from the 1980's

The second plate is also not 18 century and is not Chinese, it is a modern true porcelain contemporary plate, very modern. 1980's Mark: Jitsu-to, True porcelain. Tentative translation. Japanese porcelain,

Hi,

One thing I would add specifically about what I said about collecting blue and white English pieces, is that their prices fluctuated because they they fell in and out of fashion.  They became desirable as part of a wider trend, a particular decorative style that many people aspired to.  In other words, they were not works of art.  They are still collectible and desirable to some people but not to enough to maintain the high prices they achieved when everyone wanted them. Other people have moved on to the next best thing!

That is not  true of the top level chinese porcelain works of art and they are in far shorter supply so a better vehicle for investment. Other chinese items have value and collectability because there was so much quality for so much longer.  I think because of the skill  of the Chinese potters and artists, their works will remain desirable and there is something to suit every budget.  Not every piece will make you money though, so make sure it brings you happiness.

I bought a wonderful but damaged Kangxi/Youngzheng teapot with its saucer for less than £10.  It was beautiful and I loved it but sadly had to sell it.  It went for over £500.  What I am saying is, by all means buy damaged stuff that you like, but try to avoid damaged run of the mill items as if you do have to sell, they will be hard to shift as they are not worth much even in perfect condition.

Have fun!

Julia

I don't agree that the UK dealers you mention are '100% legit' in the sense that you can trust them implicitly, simply because not everyone knows everything, and most dealers make comparisons and assumptions from what they know. Opinions vary and everyone makes mistakes.. Even if it's describing something as Kangxi mark and period , when it's possibly been made in the C19th - you are still buying an antique but , their  description is wrong: you must use your own judgement and from a beginner's perspective that is difficult.

I also disagree that you need to buy and spend money to handle the items. Handling is vital. I would really like Peter to make some videos where he handles true and fake items side by side, showing what to feel and look for. But you can do this - in antique centres, in auction previews. But again, many regional auction houses sell fake items sometimes.

The problem is there are so few really good Chinese antiques in antique shops now, that is why ebay is so useful for a buyer. If you live near Taunton, the weekly antique market there has a good chinese porcelain seller, called Tim. In London there is portobello road market. The ebay seller Buckinghamshireantiques sells from a shop in Wendover. 

Some museums have fabulous chinese porcelain: bristol, durham, oxford, birmingham, and of course you cannot touch , but you get near real imperial porcelain.

Hi Short Dong,

All good advice given, as I tried to outline to you a week or so ago.

Collect quality and avoid damaged items.

Mark

Posted by: Julia

Hi,

One thing I would add specifically about what I said about collecting blue and white English pieces, is that their prices fluctuated because they they fell in and out of fashion.  They became desirable as part of a wider trend, a particular decorative style that many people aspired to.  In other words, they were not works of art.  They are still collectible and desirable to some people but not to enough to maintain the high prices they achieved when everyone wanted them. Other people have moved on to the next best thing!

That is not  true of the top level chinese porcelain works of art and they are in far shorter supply so a better vehicle for investment. Other chinese items have value and collectability because there was so much quality for so much longer.  I think because of the skill  of the Chinese potters and artists, their works will remain desirable and there is something to suit every budget.  Not every piece will make you money though, so make sure it brings you happiness.

I bought a wonderful but damaged Kangxi/Youngzheng teapot with its saucer for less than £10.  It was beautiful and I loved it but sadly had to sell it.  It went for over £500.  What I am saying is, by all means buy damaged stuff that you like, but try to avoid damaged run of the mill items as if you do have to sell, they will be hard to shift as they are not worth much even in perfect condition.

Have fun!

Julia

Inspiring story, I enjoyed your post, and i have an inkling that one day Noritake  art nouveua and certain patterns might have a upsurge in value. It is the ugly cousin of Satsuma and Kutani, and will never have the beauty and diversity of those styles, and it is a company rather than a style, however it is unique and has a strong fundamental value for the novice collector as it is simple to identify and age and value and is rarely ever faked. They have some very lovely pieces, and some elegant and interesting set's. The Toyota of Japanese porcelain.Reliable and never lets you down.

Tam,

I will try visit those Auction houses if I am ever in that part of the world. I spent i think £55 in total in that collection i posted. Thankfully i dodged the 2 plates, and saved ££, so i am very grateful for you guys. £55 is worth it in the long run for me. I can appraise and learn from what i have, and consider it about the same value of a field guide along with a good antiques book. I have a ton of other stuff too. 

I have been getting good and pristine Antiques from Peter's sellers whom I listed above, and those are remarkable and beautiful to have. However i wanted as wide a range no matter the condition as i could find at cheap prices so i could learn from having them to handle and familiarise myself with. Some may well turn out to be fake, I mean i dodged a bullet with the plates, but even if a few are not what they are meant to be, it will  be an experience appraising them.

Together with a ton of literature I can work from there. Not sure what the plan is, but all it takes is one or 2 good sales to break even.