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Okay, here is my sad story about a twenty five year quest.
To the best of my recollection, this happened in the early nineties when my partner and I were prowling the aisles of a regional antiques show on a Saturday afternoon. We walked into the booth area of an out of state Asian arts dealer and against the back wall in a glass fronted cabinet was a display of dark blue bowls, saucer dishes, and small cups in various sizes. These items were decorated in exactly the same manner—dark blue monochrome exteriors, white interiors and the rim of each piece dressed in brown glaze. Under every piece was a neatly squared four character hallmark. As I practically pressed my nose up against the glass, the quality of the potting and glazing was stunning. Obviously these were made for the Chinese market and could they really be 18th century? Oh...by the way, did I forget to mention that there were around twenty or so of the things!
After 10 minutes or so, we failed to gain the attention of the dealer who was busy with other clients. We got tired of waiting and decided to go on after finding out that the entire grouping was priced around $7500. I wandered away to look elsewhere when my partner started chatting with another dealer who specialized in snuff bottles. We later left the show with an instant smallish collection of ‘antique’ snuff bottles that cost around $5000 and resulted in buyer’s remorse three days later. At this time, I was unemployed so couldn’t see dipping into savings for asian antiques. If I had realized my partner (who was practicing law only part time) was willing to spend some coin on antiques, then I would have dragged his ass back to that other dealer and proposed that we split the cost of those wonderful pieces of porcelain.
Six months or so later, I came across a photo in one of my antiques trade magazines of a pair of blue bowls with brown rims and same hallmarks that had sold at auction in Hong Kong for $12000 US. We then contacted the dealer from the show and he told us that he had sold the items to a couple in another city. They then sent the largest pair of bowls from the grouping to Hong Kong as mark and period 18th century porcelain. The dealer realized he had woefully underpriced the consignment. He later sold us another pair of 5” diameter bowls from the same consignor for a more realistic price. For years I have searched for more of these items and have learned more of their history. After twenty years of looking, I have collected a total of six examples. This experience has left me with an unreasonable dislike of snuff bottles!
It’s getting late, so no pictures...but if you Google this hallmark Jing wei tang zhi and select the images category, it usually brings up a grouping of four of these items. By the way, those are mine.
Very beautiful! I can understand why you are still upset.
Do you keep them on display in your home? If so, I guess nowhere near those particular snuff bottles. 😉
As mentioned before, I'm woefully negligent about passing on a piece I like, and my bank account often reflects this. However, I have one big regret for thinking I could clean a 17th c. palace painting. Spoiler...I was not able to clean it.
I've been a woodblock print collector for 30 years, so I've learned some conservation tricks for lifting glued down prints and cleaning them.
So, about 8 years ago I bought a huge 17th c palace painting, on silk measuring 6 foot by 4 foot, but it was glued down and very dark due to the acid from the cardboard/masonite backing. I thought maybe I could clean it up s bit.
Well, I tested a 1 inch x 1 inch corner of the painting to see if it was stable enough to be lifted from the board with warm water, thinking if I could lift the painting, I could remove the acid and have a beautiful painting.
Well, the test worked. So, I proceeded to construct a large soaking bath with a tarp and some 2x4 studs, and filled it with warm distilled water. Construction went perfectly.
So, I placed the painting into the warm water and began to watch. The glue loosened right away, but then disaster - the 400 year old silk had shattered over time, which wasn't apparent because the painting was glued down. So, as the glue released, millions of tiny square pieces of the painting floated to the top of the water.
It was like I made a giant jigsaw puzzle with a million impossibly small pieces.
I had only spent $900 on the painting, so it had nothing to do with the money, but I was crushed that my foolishness had destroyed piece of history.
It must have been a terrible experience, Greeno! I have never destroyed or broken anything but gave away something too cheap. I have probably told the story before but it still irks me.
I had bought a censer that was late 19th century in my opinion. Not really peach bloom but rather misfired. There was a chip and crack with what was declared as a kintsugi repair. Somehow I never got warm with it. As it was dirty I cleaned it and the gold went away. It was just a line from a golden pen. After that I sold it on Ebay as 19th century. I started low - and got 1 Euro. Next time I stumbled across the censer the buyer had resold it for $150. And now it’s on Trocadero for $1550. It’s been sitting there for a long time and I’m still not convinced it was 18th century. But it still hurts to have been so stupid.
https://www.trocadero.com/stores/nellique/items/1373278/Chinese-Sang-de-Boeuf-Porcelain-Censer
Birgit
I would have been devastated greeno107.
Wow €1. That's gotta hurt Birgit. But I think your correct in it being 19th century. Not my area. Just my gut feeling etc.
I do know of Helen but have never dealt with her. She's in Queensland Australia. She is more heavily involved in ivory and japanese wares.
I have many regrets unfortunately. More recently I really wanted this plaque by Master He Xuren. It sold at sotheby's New York back a couple of years ago for $3500 plus bp.
Previously it had sold on eBay for about 90k. But was never paid for. The seller put it up again a couple of more times. Same result no payment. I think last time it sold for 20k.
Unfortunately at the time I was pressed for funds. I think it was a great buy.
Mark
I passed on many great pieces in 1991 Indonesia, which in retrospect were ridiculously underpriced but at the time seemed too dear. I appreciated seeing them and but I did not always have the refined taste to appreciate what the shop owners were showing me. One old gentlemen dug out three pieces which he all so carefully unwrapped before me. He proudly stepped back so I could admire his treasure, spinach and egg yoke. I may have managed to mumble some false praise before sadly shaking my head no. I wish I had bought at least one piece as now I would not find them the garish nightmare that I did that day.
Hi Julia,
Those snuff bottles are long gone! The blue dishes get a shelf in my desk.
Years ago, it was thought these items has been produced for the old summer palace complex (Yuan Ming Yuan) which would have made them imperial. Now, it seems there is a more current theory that they were produced for a high Manchu official. There are examples in both dark blue and light celadon green with this particular hallmark. Production of these wares apparently went on for several generations.
Those slip cased volumes look lovely in your secretaire too.
Oh greeno107, I feel your pain!
About eight years ago, I bought a pair of 18th century Japanese screens from a dealer in Kyoto. They were my first major purchase of Japanese art and the dealer had to do a lot of ‘hand holding’ and education with me as we worked through the deal. There was quite a bit of discussion regarding the environmental conditions that are required for displaying these objects.
When they finally arrived, I excitedly unpacked them and set them standing up in my then un-finished library space for closer examination. There were no curtains or shades on the windows and I wasn’t paying attention to the afternoon sun hitting the back side of one of the screens. Several days later, I walked into the room and noticed to my horror that one of the panels on the second screen had a horizontal split all the way across the painted surface. I was both mortified & embarrassed with my stupidity!
Hi William, what is the black and white bowl on your upper shelf?
Birgit
Hello Birgit,
I got that bowl many years ago because I found the grisaille painting so intriguing.
I think my famille noire bowl was produced in the early 20th century when demand by western collectors for ‘antique’ noire pieces was very strong. They even added a pseudo hallmark to the base. Look at the lady in her push chair with what look like rubber tires. It’s so amusing!
Birgit,
This is why collecting Chinese antiques has continued to delight and amaze me for 40 years! When you contacted me about that black & white bowl, I hadn’t given it much thought for many years. As I was flipping through the catalogues on the BidAmount site, I came across this item.
Do you know anything about the auction house named Zacke in Vienna? This vase was for sale in their April 25th 2020 auction. In all these years, I have never seen anything published that matched the style of decoration on my little mystery bowl.
Hi William, I also think Zacke can be trusted. The screen shot is not detailed enough but if you have access to their original pictures you could compare painting style and foot.
Birgit
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