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Hi Jamie,
Very nice vases. I am no expert on cloisonné, I find it quite hard to date after a certain period and it can be difficult deciding on the origin. Brian is correct, these do look 19th c. I didn't see his post initially hence the edit.
Your vases are very interesting with the calligraphy, I hope some one can help with that. May I suggest you start a new thread to attract attention? Obviously, if you are happy to stay on here that is fine.
One key way to distinguish whether it is Japanese or Chinese is the pattern around the mouth, sometimes the foot. Little circles would almost certainly mean a Japanese origin, but I can't see in the pictures what the rim is like.
If you could add a picture of that, it would help.
Julia
Sorry, editing again. I can't help feeling the stylemof the flowers is very Chinese but the writing and background colour reminds me more of japanese - partly due to that circle with the cross.
Hence my confusion. These vase are currently available from a local estate. The lady is asking 400 USD for the pair. I am unable to preview presently and I am going on the same pics you are viewing. I asked her to hold for me for a couple days till I can preview. If Chinese 19th early 20th C., I will gladly pay the 400. If Japanese, I'm not so sure it is a good buy. Sincerely JT.
Ah, I see. The colours look quite Japanese and they did sometimes use a more chinese style, I sold one a few years ago - it had the little circles and also the goldstone colour, so I was pretty sure about the origin despite the design.
Hi JT,
Not my area but I don't think those vases/lamps are cloisonne. They look like chinese champlev and probably from the mid 20th century.
Mark
Not Champleve I can see the wire placement not incised or stamped. The patina on the metal work is to dark for mid 20th century. I’m not sure if Japanese or Chinese can’t see base or lip.
Hi Brian,
I was thinking that they were copies as such. The overall look of them is static and imo all over the place.
Perhaps submit them to Peter for his opinion. It's a small price for peace of mind.
I tend to keep away from cloisonne myself. But it's been a most interesting discussion had by all.
Mark
I am no expert either. But have learned some things. The top and bottom look painted to me maybe they didn’t like the boarder. Quality for 19th century is lacking workmanship. I’m not seeing the $400 price tag. But lamps are bringing big bucks right now. Here is a typical 19th century vase as Julia mentioned. I also added a high quality Chinese vase 19th century early 20th century
I own this little pair of turn of the century export cloisonee. May be good for comparison on the prunus blossoms. JT
@lotusblack The first one has the gold stone look mentioned by Julia. I have heard so many stories about gold stone over the years, the man made stone popular in turn of the century jewelry, even that it was made by monks. Sharon
@lotusblack I love the flower ball design, very pretty. I Googled goldstone and monks this afternoon and the page said it was an urban myth that goldstone was accidently created by Italian monks in the 16th century. Well, all this time I thought it was American monks in the 19th century, along with making wine in California to support their order. Sharon
@lotusblack They very well may be, I tend to call any round design, a flower ball design. I just find them a very attractive design, as do many others, because the price usually reflects the popularity. So far the only ones I have come across in an amount that I would spend the money, were crudely made porcelain and I'm holding out for the dream score.
@lotusblack The pair of white ground vases appear to be Japanese. That cross in a circle is paying homage to the Shimazu clan, which is more often associated with Satsuma.
Mark is not wrong to draw comparison with champlevé, as this Chinese like cloisonne made in Japan seemed to use enamels prone to pitting, and metals prone to tarnishing.
I don't know if that was on purpose or not, but given that lack of interest among collectors for this type of work, I consider this style a failed attempt.
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