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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.


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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4436
Topic starter 07/10/2021 10:27 pm  

During my short collecting career, I have come across some paintings. In most cases I am still at a loss as to who the artist is and what the potential value might be. I have not been able to find a consistent source to help in the identification process. Occasionally I have gotten some feedback and translation help here on the forum, but it has not been something I could count on.

So, I am wondering how to proceed. If I happen to have some very nice pieces, then I would want to get them on their way to a new owner in most cases, so how best to do that? 

The one thing I am sure about is that I am not going to part ways with paintings that I have not yet identified, because I don't want to sell out of ignorance. That could be an epic mistake, and we don't want that. But I also don't want to hold onto things forever.

So here is one specific question I've been wanting to ask: is it a bad idea to send pictures to Sothebys/Christies/Bonhams of pieces I have not yet identified? Do they process submissions like that in a thoughtful way and investigate the work before they make their decision? Or, once they see it is submitted as an unknown work, are they prone to discarding such submissions? Have any of you had experiences that informed you of how they operate in regards to paintings you haven't yet identified? I don't want to waste their time on the one hand, but on the other, if I don't know who the artist is or the potential value, but the majors might know, it seems like the smart thing to do is to send pictures of it to them just in case it turns out to be something of great value. At any rate, I would like to learn from the wisdom and experiences of others, so I look forward to hearing your thoughts about all of this and any tricks and resources you might have to help you in this regard. Cheers! John  


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
07/10/2021 10:42 pm  

Paintings are difficult to get into any of the major auctions.  There are far too many good copies, and provenance is very important.

I've done it a few years ago with one early 20th c. painting by Zhao Shao'ang, but it was a very early painting, and a near identical existed in a museum collection, along with details from the artist that stated he made additional versions.

The other was last month, with a 17/18th c. court scene.  These are impossible to fake (as far as I know) as they are highly detailed, but they're also not the highest earning pieces (Mine brought $14k....not a kick in the @#$%, but nothing that you can retire on).

Translations are a great start...I ask, but I don't always get a response...sometimes the writing is just too poorly done or the translation is embarassingly bad... you just roll with the punches.

Don't waste money on professional appraisals.  Tried it with a highly qualified degreed expert .... I miss the $1400 I paid.  Appraisals came back in the range of $3,000-6,000 on several paintings, but none achieved more than $500 at auction.  Might have been that the auctions were not high enough quality, but it's hard to say.

Bottom line.... you need a painting that is signed and in the manner of a famous artist, so get a translation.  THEN, contact the major auction houses, but perhaps a few museums first.

There are far far less 'experts' of Chinese paintings...tricky business.


   
Yin Hall, Ming1449, Julia and 1 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7235
08/10/2021 3:02 am  

I have bought and sold a fair few paintings and only a handful have made a good profit, even when the work is by a "listed" artist, it can mean very little when you are trying to move it on.  There are a lot of paintings out there that are adequately good for display, but not special or commercially exciting.  The trick is to know that what you are buying goes beyond adequate, beyond good - and to be able to recognise it as an original.

I find especially older style Chinese paintings tricky in that respect because I haven't learnt enough, I don't understand them the way I understand european paintings but I may try to assess them the same way which might be wrong.

If you are serious about buying and selling art to the extent of approaching major auction houses, I would recommend doing the groundwork and learn all you can before buying up lots of pieces which may be very hard to get rid of.

Knowledge really is key, when you are buying and selling, so I would start, as I am sure you have, by investing in learning, rather than relying on luck and your own judgment unless you are certain that you have a very good eye.

In second-hand places, I find it worth remembering that very often, people who know more than me, have already seen the pieces that I am looking at and have walked away. It makes me focus more on what might be wrong or put people off. I think the best thing I have learnt is to walk away knowing I may be making an error, but prepared to take that risk, rather than the bigger one that I am buying something whose small profit will be eaten up with the time and effort spent selling it on.

 


   
Yin Hall reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4436
Topic starter 08/10/2021 8:42 am  

@greeno107 I recently was offered the opportunity to get one of these professional appraisals done, and I was willing to go for it, but the person has not yet followed up so I am not sure if it will happen. The cost was only a fraction of the figure you paid, more like a few hundred, so I was going to do it, but I also had wanted to get others advice about it so I'm glad you brought it up. I do wonder who the regional auction houses are turning to to identify the works the sell, or are they just going off what the sellers tell them the paintings are? It seems like they would have to verify that the pieces are authentic, so they must have access to experts in Chinese art. I wonder if it is possible to tap into that resource to get identification assistance?


   
ReplyQuote
 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4436
Topic starter 08/10/2021 6:26 pm  

Just posted pictures of a new one I picked up. We'll see if anyone can offer some assistance with translation, etc. 


   
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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