But regarding the Kinrande vase.

The same seller also has this plate on sale that is described as Chinese/Ming. Possibly Swatow ware but also reminds me of Kinrande style. It looks authentic to me and is more reasonable priced than the vase. Are the any reasons to suspect that one is fake?

Hi Avatar, 

Sorry I forgot I asked where you are located. 

If you think that jar is authentic then that's your prerogative. But I would do more research etc. The inside is brand new from what I can see. Old Japanese and Chinese jars from about pre 1940 would all have their clay removed by hand. After about 1940 machines were used. The example posted by you is imo machine worked. 

Sotheby's have had some superb kakiemon elephants. 

Mark 

I'll probably just leave the jar, it would just have made a nice pair with the Kakiemon jar I'm considering but I'll probably also just leave that one, not least because of the Corona-situation.

But the source of the jars and plate etc.  actually also has a few other Kakiemon pieces available like this censer. Very charming looking little thing and looks authentic to me but it's possible I've missed on something,

I wasn't sure if it was an early piece but now I just found a similar shaped censer at Bonhams dated to the early 18th ct. that also gives is a clue about the potential value. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26199/lot/188/?category=list

Please keep away from that seller, Corey. The „Swatow“ plate is an obvious copy. The polychrome jar is also a fake. Look at the flowers around the top rim, they look identical and stiff. I can’t judge the Japanese items but would not buy from that seller. 

May I ask why the Swatow plate is an obvious copy. I don't know much about Swatow ware unfortunately. I'm  not sure if it actually is swatow, but that was my first thought.

Now I just found this plate at Christie's  so to me it seems the plate actually IS Swatow.  Fake or not. https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-late-ming-swatow-polychrome-deep-dish-4299676-details.aspx

@avatar

The color is too garish and the bottom is simply awful. Compare the colors with the Christies example and judge for yourself. 

Colors can appear very different on different photographs. I've demonstrated this several times. Here is an example of a Swatow plate from Marchant that seems to have the same greenish blue color for comparison.

And the base is also correct for Swatow ware. Most often Swatow bases looks worse than this. Here is a picture of the base of the same plate for comparison.

Here is the link where the Marchant was found and you can also see a few more examples. https://heteromys3.rssing.com/chan-3271429/all_p191.html And here is an article from Koh Antique on Swatow ware where you can see still more examples of Swatow bases for comparison. http://www.koh-antique.com/swatow/swatow.htm

Personally I think the plate is likely authentic and I must admit that I find your comment not only arrogant but also rather ridiculous. You advice me to keep away from the seller even though you say you can't judge the Japanese items. The Kakiemon censer is most likely authentic and I'm researching a Kakiemon jar available from the same seller with a potential much higher value but I suspect that one is a later copy like the Nabeshima plate. The Nabeshima plate would probably have a value around $15,000 for auction if it's an early one but it's possibly a 19th/20th ct. copy. I haven't really researched it in depth. Unfortunately I don't know much about the faking of Japanese ceramics. If someone here knows more about this topic they are very welcome to apply.

Corey, I hope you aren't going to be rude to everyone who disagrees with you, but as it puts you in a bad light, no one else, I will take the risk.

Personally, I am surprised that you think those reds could be the same in real life.  Even allowing for slight differences on screens etc these reds are at different ends of the spectrum. I have a swatow plate, it is so worn that the central decoration has gone, but the colours are visible on the sides. The red is the red on the first of the plates. It is very distinctive.

To my mind, the red on "your" plate is quite Japanese, having 3 rather than 4 roundels seems to add to that impression. I don't know if 4 is usual, but maybe someone else does? 

Hi Corey, I apologize as I thought you believed the plate to be Chinese. As such it would have been a fake. I know nothing about Japanese porcelain so I can’t say if it’s old. Chinese swatow is often repainted, the usual and authentic condition is with worn off colors like on Julia‘s plate. 
As to color differences: even I as an amateur photographer work with a grey card, raw files and a calibrated monitor to get the colors right. It’s something that I would expect from a professional seller. 
Of course it’s your money, so you can spend it where you want. But I wonder why you ask for advice when you just want confirmation that you have discovered a source of real bargains. 

This is mine, I couldn't resize so I cropped it. It has been on here before, but they will have disappeared. I have been looking at other plates, 4 does seem favoured for roundels, but I saw some unenclosed designs with three.

I also noted that smaller items had brighter reds, more like that in the plate under discussion.

I wasn't rude. Or at least that wasn't my intention. Only a little anointed perhaps. I always try to be correct, polite and gentle. And I never talked about the red color. I talked about the blue color. But here is a Swatow plate from Rob Michiels Auctions that has the same red (and blue) color and the base is also the same. And the enamels are not worn off just like on Christie's plate. If they could be repainted also I don't know.

And as you can see there is a slight variation in tone on the different photographs provided which is probably due to different lightning conditions. If the colors would look the same in real life I don't know and I never said I thought they would.

https://www.rm-auctions.com/en/asian-arts-october-2020/18259-a-chinese-swatow-dish-with-a-buddhist-lion-ming  

And to avoid any further misunderstandings I'm adding an example of a Swatow plate with three roundels from a Trocadero seller.

https://www.trocadero.com/stores/meijibijutsu/items/1323373/Chinese-Ming-Dynasty-Swatow-Plate

Thank you, I am glad you didn't intend to be rude, sometimes things come across badly when it is not intended. 😊 

It was actually the red that bothered me, the blue wasn't so bad.  It had a distinct japanese look, but you mentioned that yourself so we agree there.  Thanks for the pictures of the three roundels, I was just speculating and thinking out loud especially as three is quite unbalanced.

I also saw the RM plate earlier but the colours do look more traditional in his other photos, the light on the main one gives the red more of an orange tone.

This has been very interesting, I enjoyed looking at other items as I particularly like the large swatow plates.  It isn't a straightforward subject - I was reading on a forum )Asian Art I think) about these items and there was a discussion as to whether or not a bowl was swatow ware or made locally in Indonesia in a similar style.  It also mentioned how popular these were in Japan.  The other things they spoke of were how fakers sometimes put the grit in the wrong places and about the variations in the shade of the undecorated "white" areas. Mine is a soft bluish-grey colour.  Someone even mentioned that these are not always porcelain, but local clays might be used - again, mine rings so I guess it is porcelain.

It was very interesting and quite a lot to take in so I am making no judgments just discussing.  For the record mine is over 37 cms which is larger than the Trocadero and RM ones. Do larger items need to be fired for longer and does that impact on the colour and the durability of the enamels?

Hi Julia, I didn’t realize how large your plate was. Many platters like these, so I have read, were exported to islamic countries where people used to dine sitting around a large plate. You can imagine a merry group eating from your plate, the wear comes from heavy use. Traces of use are a sign of authenticity, the RM piece also shows some wear of the red color in the middle.