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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.


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I bought this Ming ...
 
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I bought this Ming dish strictly for study.

 
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 saki2015
(@saki2015)
Trusted Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 43
25/02/2022 6:59 pm  

@lotusblack Ok, it's not Ko-sometsuke, it's Kraak. Early. 

It's really a lovely piece. I LOVE early Kraak.


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
26/02/2022 4:51 am  

@lotusblack 

Hi Brian - 

Wendy is quite correct, moulded designs to the cavetto/rim are now considered one of features seen on kraak wares ...

Such pieces commenced production in late Jiajing, around 1550. However, the situation is quit complex, as moulded designs are known on some early Ko-sometsuke pieces and were also copied by the Japanese kilns, seen on some mid/late 17th century wares ... 

The fact that it is very thinly potted would indicate it could indeed be an early kraak piece, dating to late Jiajing/early Wanli so 1550-1580 ...

I check through the latest publication on the Butler collection to see if I can find any comparisons ... 

Stuart 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4523
26/02/2022 11:30 am  

@lotusblack Color is lively, very happy for you Brian, Congratulations.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 26/02/2022 11:37 am  

Just an update the dealer has also identified it also as Kraak. I have a lot to learn.


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4523
26/02/2022 11:54 am  

P.S. too early, lovely.


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
26/02/2022 1:23 pm  

@lotusblack 

Hi Brian - 

The latest scholarship places the commencement of Kraak wares to mid 1560’s, so very late Jiajing/early Longqing, and production continued to the end of Ming, so mid 1640’s ...

Ko-sometsuke wares, produced exclusively for the Japanese market, is known thought to have  started during Tianqi and continued throughout Chongzhen period, so 1620-1644/5 ...

Some images/descriptions for comparison ...

1 to 4:- Pieces from a private collection, sold through a well known London dealer in 2001 ...

5/6:- From latest Butler publication ... 

I was in London early and, by some coincidence, come across the dish in the final image!! I will not post the exterior/base image out of respect for the dealer, whose label/price attached to, but the moulded design continues on the exterior, exterior footrim edge has some area’s of attached kiln grit and the base is unglazed and shows concentric wheel marks. Kraak ware, attributed to Wanli period ... 

I hope this is of some help ...

Stuart 

EA722319 51FE 4DDD 8899 86C5C951F407
4B32323D 6424 4407 B652 77187B851593
F31F342A BA4D 4557 90E0 6933AD4FE9D6
F507C215 B822 4A53 B526 CAADD2891F78
91D7B019 5EBE 45E5 889C 0AD5C0B4B318
33C777EE 0010 4083 8199 6774D5778D39
6C29208E A96A 404E 8B4F 7BF2BF6CCFD2

   
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Ronm
 Ronm
(@ronm)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 612
26/02/2022 1:27 pm  

Brian, so it’s an early Kraak plate, good for you. Glad my interpretation was a bit off. 

Ron


   
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Steve
 Steve
(@steve)
Famed Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1794
26/02/2022 1:42 pm  

Brian,

I love the pattern on that dish. A nice find! 

My first Ming I also bought from Shangrila, one of thos Wanli Phoenix plates at auction (and I lucked out and got a deal - yeay!)

-S


   
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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