The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
I think we have all acknowledged that the number of good quality / period Chinese antiques in the market seem to be getting quite low. However, I was thinking if it could actually be calculated... perhaps not extremely accurately, but sort of a general sense. So, here is my attempt....keep in mind that I'm doing this quite literally as I'm submitting this post.
So, quick Google search... there was around 160 million people at about the peak of the population in the Ming, and Wikipedia says that the population of the Qing started at around 100 million and grew to 400 million by the end of the Qing.
To make the math simple, let's just say the average population was 200 million during the span of the Ming and Qing, roughly 500 years.
I would define 'quality' pieces of art as those pieces made for the elite, the top 5%, so that population would represent 10 million people (not including Imperial related works...that will be a different catagory of study because the emperor had a huge spance of real estate and entire workshops at his disposal... so let's leave that one along for now).
How many pieces of art would the elite commission per year? I have no idea... but, let's just say atleast 1 per year. If you have evidence of an accurate number, please post.
That means that roughly 10 million pieces were created each year x 500 years = 5 billion pieces of quality art by the end of the Qing.
Now, let's take into account the likely destruction of many of these pieces due to ships sinking, war, normal breakage & wear... Does half sound right? That sounds a bit conservative, but I'm going with 50% destroyed. That leaves 2.5 billion pieces of quality Chinese art.
How much of that is already in a museum? Let's say 50%, again. We're left with 1.25 billion pieces.
And, let's say some of that art stayed in China, never to leave China's borders....50% sound okay? Now we're left with 725,000 pieces.
That's a pretty small number when considering the current population of about 1.5 billiion in the USA, UK, and Europe.
If we increase the production of quality art from 1 per year, to 5 per year, we're still only talking 3.625 million pieces in today's global market. And, as these pieces are held in private ownership, only a percentage of them come up for sale at auction/sale each year.
Then, if the items are repatriated to China, they're out of the global market forever, which has been happening for the past 30 years at an alarming rate.
To be frank, I think the 1 per year production rate is generous...quality art was expensive, and culturally speaking, I think Chinese people bought art very frugaly and only on special occassions, and preserved these pieces to the best of their ability as heirlooms, rather than buying new pieces year after year.
I wonder if we are looking at a market, today, that might only contain a few hundred thousand pieces of quality Chinese art that has not been repatriated.
Thoughts?
What is your definition of quality? You don’t seem to include any Chinese wares made for export. The Nanking Cargo was recovered in the 1980s from a VOC ship that sank in 1752. Over a 150,000 pieces of porcelain were recovered and sold by Christie’s at a very successful auction in Amsterdam.
@william Let me try to clarify.
Here’s how I defined it in the post:
“I would define 'quality' pieces of art as those pieces made for the elite, the top 5%, so that population would represent 10 million people (not including Imperial related works…”
So, I’m referring to wares made for DOMESTIC elite.
I think export wares, specifically those of fine quality or by special order & designs, would increase the number of ‘quality’ pieces in the global market significantly.
I think the international market could crash with the stroke of a pen, but as Peter says, "always a market for the fine." If a commercial enterprise, "make hay while the sun shines," for collectors it is irrelevant except for estate distribution, as for me, immaterial, because if I have something valued in the hundreds or more, I want it to be a book on my bookshelf or to be shiney and set in precious metal, plus, it does not have to be fine to have great age and history. "The rich are different." "Yes, they have more money."
@greeno107 you screwed up your math when you cut 1.25 billion in half and came up with 750 thousand. The number you would actually have is 625 million.
Latest Post: A Charming German Maid Our newest member: James Close Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.