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This afternoon I watched the Nagel auction and there was a black Yuan bowl that I liked. The estimate was EUR 500-800 but to my surprise they started at EUR 250. I hit the button and it was mine. For 250.
I have to admit that I always thought the lower estimate was the starting price in a live auction and also the lowest bid that would be accepted. In this case EUR 500. Or is it because nobody left a bid in advance?
Birgit
The low estimate is not always the reserve price, or the lowest price possible to sell the piece at. The auction house and the seller come to an agreement beforehand on what the estimate and the reserve price will be. From what I have seen the auction houses might typically suggest the reserve be set at 50-75% of the low end estimate.
In the smaller scale auctions I used to attend in the UK, the auctioneer would often start low and pretend there were competing bids until the price reached within touching distance of the lower estimate. Even if there were no bidders he pretended there were until he got to the estimate and then pretended it sold. You could tell if it really had or not by what he wrote in hos book - well, the hand action either he wrote a name or he put a line through the entry.
In their vintage/house clearance, rather than antique auctions, you could sometimes pick something up cheaply, especially if it was part of a house clearance or had been in previous auctions and not sold.
It sounds like you did well to get it at such a lower price. I hope you will post photos when it arrives, I would love to see it.
Thank you both, I didn’t know how it worked. So it might be better to follow the auction and bid live instead of bidding in advance and probably too much.
The black Yuan bowl looks cool, I’ll show it when I get it.
Birgit
@julia That’s quite shocking: inventing bids to drive the price up. If you’re not there in person to watch him closely you’ll never know it 😟
Birgit
@shinigami Sometimes the low estimate is also set as the reserve, it is up to the seller to decide in advance. With the higher ticket big house items that might happen more often than other places. If there are no advance bids to get the ball rolling I think the auctioneer just starts by throwing out a low number to get things going, but they don't typically start it like that at the reserve price. At smaller auctions I've seen auctioneers throw out a number to get it started but if nobody bites then they drop it lower and lower until bidders come in. It's all quite interesting.
Hi Birgit,
looks like you bagged yourself a cheap bowl. I have seen similar sell for over $1,000.
I assume it was lot # 442. I was watching the live feed. I was looking at some Jade's.
From my understanding if you place bids before the auction they normally only accept opening bid. Phone bids are different than leaving bids with livesuctions or invaluable.
Generally speaking the reserve is the start price or 20% under. I purchased a dragon jade buckle post auction for 20% under the start/opening bid. This was the reserve.
Nearly every auction there is always something or one lot that tends to fly under the radar on the day.
Most of the lots sold at Nagel were at or just above the opening bid. Only a few lot's, like yours were sold for Less than half.
Some items (I suspect yours was) are sold without reserve and not always advertised as such.
Sometimes its best to bid Live. Sometimes you can get Lucky.
I like the bowl you bought. It's beautiful. Congratulations.
Mark
Birgit, I think the technique has a name, it might be "bidding to the wall" or something. Someone will know. I have seen another auctioneer do something similar with supposed bids on the book, only very often the pieces turn up unsold in the next auction.
@imperialfinegems Yes it was no. 442. I was outbid on the lovely blue and gold Tongzhi dish, so I was surprised that I was the only bidder for the black bowl.
Birgit
@imperialfinegems Another question: you said you bought post auction for 20% under the start bid. I have often bought unsold pieces, just sent a mail and got them for the lower estimate price and additional fees. Was that a mistake? Should I actively offer a sum a little below the lower estimate? Because I haven’t watched the auction I don’t know the price they initially started with.
However in my local auction house they always start with asking the lower estimate and it would probably be rude to offer less.
Birgit
Hi Birgit,
Generally speaking the lower estimate is the reserve.
So if the estimate is say $600-900 then it's safe to assume that the reserve is $600.
However often live auctions will start at about 20% under that figure.... So start price being $500 with estimate of $600-900.
I knew from watching the Live auction that the jade piece only reached $460-480. So it was passed in.
I contacted them the next day, not by email but by telephone call to enquire if it was sold or not sold. Since it was not sold I asked what was the lowest or reserve price. They informed me the client would not accept offers below $500. I immediately accepted and paid over the phone.
I have tried a number of times to try and buy something at say half the price. But rarely is this accepted.
So Birgit if you contact them in person and enquire about its availability and asking price or reserve price.... if you are happy then proceed. If the price is too high or unacceptable then make a offer.
BTW I have always been successful at between 70%-80% of the estimated price range.
Mark
Approx. reserve price, minus around 20% of low side of estimates. Unless something else agreed between a seller and auction house. Very often I find items on Sotheby's when they do "buy it now" price instead of auction. So I guess, reserve, etc. is individual type of agreement between 2 sides.
Thank you Mark, calling the auction house is a good idea. I will try it next time when I want to buy an unsold item. Also I will bide live rather than in advance. Have learned a lot in this thread!
Birgit
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