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@musicnus It is a beautiful collection, but apparently not for sale. And, at least half appears to be Japanese, which I made a point to say is deserving of more attention.
The other half of the collection that is Chinese, as you mention, is export/trade pieces, which is also outside of what I was making reference to.
Do you know of any stores filled with genuine mark and period porcelains for sale? If so, email me privately so we can buy them out. LOL.
I know that there are no more shops selling genuine mark and period porcelains, and perhaps outside of a few very high end galleries, perhaps there never were. But, we (collectors of Chinese antiques) seem to be willing to accept that Ebay dealers seem to find these fantastic collections month after month.... it is absurd on its face.
Chinese and theirs reproductions these days, I think all re-pro market, is not just about when deceiving buyers..Chinese, they trying to hold on to theirs porcelain history as well. I am just imagining, how much nicely painted vase or bowl, which classed as repro today, will be worth in 100 or 200 years..?
@rahawkins Can you recall something that's 500 years old that's just an example of "commercial history," or "that feels like a reproduction"? I cannot think of anything that old that doesn't feel interesting in some way. Also, I did not get the impression from Julia's comment that she is calling those pieces "fine art". Thank you so much in advance.
One example would be 15/16th c. minyao wares that are often poorly constructed and often undecorated.... that's what I would consider 'commercial history', and I think there are several examples of such artifacts.
And, 500 years ago, we did not have a technological revolution as we (humankind) has experienced in the past 150 years. So, the concept of commercial/industrial production was not yet invented, and consequently there are far less examples.
500 years from now, as mankind looks at historical artifacts, there most certainly will be a clear distinction between mass produced products that came from a factory vs. handmade arts and crafts, especially given how long plastic lasts.
Can I think of something 500 years old that feels like reproduction? Nothing comes to my mind.
@charlotte I have a Ming equestrian figure that is reminiscent of earlier periods. It is also fairly crudely done, but might have been redecorated at some time.
@greeno107 Despite the fact that minyao wares were made for the common man, many of them are quite beautiful and desirable, and i agree with Julia and Sharon that it's so satisfying to handle these kinds of objects as long as they're old, and 500 years is very old! They certainly do not need to be imperial treasures for me to find them fascinating and often beautiful. I just love the feeling of 500 year old stoneware and porcelain, and each one feels a little different from another. Plus, i am always fascinated by how old they are, and I think about who used them throughout the course of history, and what they went through. I often think, "wow, if this vase (or plate, or cup etc.) could talk, it would have a lot to say! A bit kooky i realize, but parts of collecting aren't always rational!😁
Exactly that, Charlotte. 😊
Sorry for any confusion, Russell. I was simply countering Tim's comment that antiques had to be high quality. In a similar way, Fine Art can be antique but doesn't have to be.
I think art and crafts are sometimes confused. But that discussion might lead away from Greeno‘s main point: where does all the stuff come from?
In the 1990s in our town there were two shops for antique Chinese porcelain. All they sold was low quality late Qing for high prices and people bought it because there was no internet and it was the best they could get. These shops are long gone.
Even my husband has now grown fond of browsing antique shops, so we visit them whenever we travel somewhere. What do we find? Common republic ladies in gardens. Lots of Japanese stuff described as Chinese. Mid 20th century atrocities.
Recently just for fun I followed all new entries on Ebay for some weeks and didn’t find a single interesting item. The market places with the private ads are even worse.
And then you have these auction houses procuring lots of high class items every few weeks and probably even in pairs. I used to think it might be because there are more resources in the States but it already started in Europe. A certain Austrian auction house has been mentioned here earlier.
Sorry I don’t know how the bold print came in. I can’t remove it.
Birgit
@shinigami Yes, you hit the nail on the head! Where are all of these mark and period pieces, these Song dynasty pieces, and such rarities coming from????
Yes, the USA is a huge market, so to a degree, there might be more available compared to Europe. However, there really are only a dozen or so major cities that can account for most of Asian art collected over the past 100 years, so the market is still relatively small.
Regarding my remarks on minyao wares not being 'antique'.... I take it back... I mispoke (sorry Minyao!).
The point I was trying to make is that back when handling antiques was done by an antiquarian and considered a highly skilled trade (18/19th c.), you would not expect to find them collecting/trading 100 year old buttons or a peasants wooden dish, or the like.
The items that antiquarians dealt in were often archeological in nature, like Roman glass or Egyptian statues, and with respect to Asian art, archaic pieces of bronze & pottery, or perhaps exemplary mark & period pieces. It was not just about being old.
In the mid 20th c., the concepts of nostalgia begin to influence what people would like to collect, and the term 'vintage' came into the picture since antiquarians had no interest in such objects.
Today, the concept has again changed to include anything that looks old, regardless of its age.
Our standars for 'antiques' has declined, and no amount of time will change the fine craftsmanship of items worthy of becoming antiques 500 years from now, because we have forsaken quality in lieu of cheaper manufactured goods of little or no artistic quality.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
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Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
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Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
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Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.