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Hidden Christian markings on Japanese antiques & porcelain

 
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 Anonymous 13097
(@Anonymous 13097)
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Topic starter 25/08/2022 3:43 pm  

This discussion began with my 8 sided bowl in the Help section.  Thanks to @julia & @jbeer2121 for my checking my bowl and I saw a "hidden" cross on the bottom.  When I lived in Japan it was well known that there were hidden Christian markings on all kinds of Japanese antiques pre1873 because of the persecutions of Christians in Japan.  For the previous 250 years Japanese Christian hid Catholic symbols like crosses and "Mary" etc.  These antiques are very rare and sought after- and none would have been exported.  Most were on paintings and wood objects or rare  ceramics with Mary&baby (in a Buddhist style) - I found a cross on my bowl only after taking photographs of the bottom at a certain angle.  It was not visible straight on. Do any of you have such a thing?  (The Chinese had no problem esp. with exports to Europe).

2gg back
2gg IMG 2963 (2)
02gg  back closeup
2gg IMG 2961 cross
1 cross2
1 cross3
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This topic was modified 3 years ago by Anonymous

   
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Christian symbols Mary cross 8 sided
 Anonymous 13097
(@Anonymous 13097)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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Topic starter 25/08/2022 3:54 pm  

If you are interested in the "Hidden Christians of Japan" there are quite a few videos on YouTube.  Also, If you have seen the James Clavell movie Shogan, you would see depictions of Japanese required to stomp on a Cross to prove they were NOT Christians.  However, it is very hard to find anything about the marks on antiques.

If you have the Soame Jenyns classic book on "Japanese Poreclain" there are articles on p21-22 and Appendix B.


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
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25/08/2022 5:41 pm  

@musicnus Also, Martin Scorsece's movie Silence, about a Potuguese priest in 17th century Japan was a fine movie, with the comic relief of a Japanese scoundrel who kept showing up to be baptised when it would be of some momentary benefit to him.


   
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Steve
 Steve
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25/08/2022 5:55 pm  

@musicnus

That's an interesting topic; I hadn't heard of this before. 

Although not Japanese, I have a Canton vase that I've wondered about because the decoration on the back of the neck has a pattern made out of stars that looks somewhat like the Chi Rho sign. ☧

Screen Shot 2021 04 23 at 11.09.07 AM

   
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 Anonymous 13097
(@Anonymous 13097)
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Topic starter 25/08/2022 9:53 pm  

@steveThe Chinese had no problem with Christian symbols.  They certainly had lots of Christian drawings for the Chinese export market.  Below Chinese plates of The Crucifixion and John Baptist.

David Coles

Christian
Christain JB

   
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 Anonymous 13097
(@Anonymous 13097)
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Topic starter 25/08/2022 10:01 pm  

A correction, There ARE some Christian plates after 1873, I believe - some are copies of Chinese plates.  Please look at my post of my 8 sited bowl in the help section.

David


   
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Steve
 Steve
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26/08/2022 12:05 pm  

@musicnus Yes, very true.

I didn't mean to suggest that I thought the mark on the vase was cryptic, I was piggy-backing onto the topic of Christian symbols in general.


   
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube.  Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings. 

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