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Same vases from same eBay seller MiguLarry - Chinese seller with a virtual UK company who has been promoted as selling authentic items on the weekly videos done on Youtube.Surely these ones are all reproductions.
The yellow vases sold in September for £3100 and another pair exactly the same are being sold with four days left in the auction as I write this.
You can see other vases sold by same.seller with a gap a couple of months apart to avoid detection I assume.I uploaded screenshots to show sold prices.
- Any thoughts?Looks like they're mixing fakes with real authentic items as other items being sold authentic.
Some of their stock comes from auction houses, unfortunately auction houses are awash with fakes. So if he has any fakes I would think it is an honest mistake rather than bad intentions.
In reference to the same items being sold twice, it is very common for buyers to win an auction and not pay. I would assume this to be the case and he has relisted the non-paid item later.
In reference to a virtual UK company, in the UK if you turnover over around £85,000 you have to register for VAT. The costs of VAT can be so prohibitive your are practically forced to register a company to protect some of your income. Registering a company is a mere formality, the reality is that he simply wants to buy antiques and sell them for a profit.
A lot of the eBay accounts that sell Chinese antiques on eBay occasionally sell a fake (either unknowingly or knowingly). The fakes have permeated the market, some people find it difficult to discern a fake on occasion. I will say that as much as I am an advocate and follower of Peter, I can point to several fakes highlighted in the newsletter. Much like the sellers he also fails to spot a fake on occasion (which is perfectly normal, especially with the increasing quality of new fakes being produced all the time). I still buy the occasional fake by mistake, though I am a lot more cautious in this current market.
@elm Thank you for your detailed reply. I appreciate the knowledge and expertise of Peter and yourself but I think that fakes are deliberately put in amongst genuine pieces by some sellers knowingly to throw people off the scent.
I know that there are non paying bidders and so items are relisted which would account for the same item being sold twice Out of curiosity, do you think those pair of yellow vases are authentic?
Also, why would a seller hide their real name on eBay and make it look westernised and not use their Chinese name?
Thanks a for your your input.
I did spend 15 years living and working in China so I have a good understanding of Chinese language and culture.
Regards
There are sellers that deliberately sell fakes. Most of them exclusively sell fakes (with varying degrees of quality, mostly poor quality but some of good quality), but some will probably mix in some authentic items. But most of the time with a seller that sells a mix of items, they will have been fooled first by the fake to buy it in the first place. As the quality of fakes increase over the years, the knowledge curve required rises. This among other reasons is why I advocate also collecting in other fields such as Japanese antiques.
On the viewing the images online, the moonflasks look ok to me. But I have started seeing unorthodox fakes of 19th century items that were not faked too much in the past. I have even seen high quality fakes of regular 19thc prunus jars that are pretty convincing (one US seller in particular sells this type of item and not mixed with any authentic items). To be extra cautious I would not like to make a 100 percent judgement, though they look good enough that I think pretty much any expert would be ok with dating them as 19th century.
I am not sure and would not want to assume they are doing that. If it is the case, it could be just that they feel that the perception they are westernized is a favorable perception for an account selling from the UK. Several of the regular sellers of Asian art on eBay will be of Chinese origin though with western citizenship. I think Migularry would be living in the UK and not running the account from another country if that is what is being proposed.
That is ok, I just thought I would try to provide some balance to the discussion because I have not seen anything that explicitly makes me think he is a bad actor.
---
I just saw that the address in the business information is a virtual office. I notice that a lot of people also register their business to their accountant. This could be for various reasons, one could be that they want to maintain some privacy for their personal address as registered company information is very public. Technically they could be running a company from another country I suppose, but the logistics for the company (such as packaging, buying, posting) seem to be ran from the UK.
I had always assumed Migularry was completely sound, but I have to add that other than listening to Peter, I have never really taken much notice of his items as I just assumed there was no point given how much some go for and how many followers he has.
I have just quickly looked at his site and was a bit surprised that there are actually a couple of items I have doubts about. However, as has been pointed out we all make mistakes and of course I may be wrong about them. So I would need to do a lot more research into his items to come to any worthwhile conclusion, or at least one that I would feel comfortable asserting publicly.
I haven’t time at the moment to look up the previously sold items referred to in the first post, but regarding the moon flasks I find it a little strange that the dragons' background is also yellow and I find the orange colouration to the base rather odd. My concerns may be down to my lack of experience.
@elm I appreciate your prompt reply.
I was only flagging certain items shown in the photos I posted, although there are a few more items I noticed might be copies but I haven't extensively looked and I am not an expert, just a beginner in this field, but have watched a lot of migularry's videos on fakes so am just starting to notice what potential items might be unauthentic.
I notice many of the items being sold by Migularry, including non-Chinese porcelain, re genuine -I just wanted to point on some I felt might not be, and I'm happy to hear views from experienced and knowledgeable members like yourself.
From the examples I posted and there are a few others, it would seem there are a lot of non paying customers for.the same antiques to be relisted and sold on again.
From the examples I posted and there are a few others, it would seem there are a lot of non paying customers for.the same antiques to be relisted and sold on again.
You have no idea. I ran eBay auctions earlier this year, and 2/3 of the items sold did not get payed for. So yeah, non-payment is a real problem.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Hello Everybody,
about items sold twice - I think it can be other reason. I know it from Polish site like ebay. As there is no problem with not paid lots (buyers are not blocked), some dealers or private persons ask friends to bid items quite high, treating it as a 'reserve price'. Just to achieve price they want. If nobody placed higher bid, item comes back, sometimes with description: buyer didn't pay, relisted. Smarter sellers wait minimum couple of weeks, calculating potential customers would forget. It's quite difficult to find it with Chinese ceramics, as the market is huge and thousands of items offered, but few years ago I was regularly checking swords and sabers on Polish auction site, it's quite small market and virtually each saber is different (damages, stamps etc), so simple to remember what was offered. One seller had a lot of re-offered lots, impossible that all where not paid. So, I'm 99% sure he had somebody to raise the price for him.
Best regards,
Lysander
It appears I am a fallen victim of Migularry's items.
I am the winner of the Meiping in picture sold back in November 2023 (circled in red), and I still have it with me.
An exact same meiping is being listed just a day ago by Migularry, after almost one and a half year, see below the listed item.
Hi,
It could be that the first time these items sold, they didn't get paid for. I have never bought from him, but I was under the impression he has a good reputation.
You could post photos of your vase and someone will hopefully be able to say if it is genuine or not.
Julia
Hi again,
Sorry, I completely misread your post and thought this was a new thread! I must have been half asleep. My apologies.
I agree, it does seem strange and I don't feel confident agreeing that this is an 18th c vase. As I suggested, if you post photos maybe we could have a better look.
Julia
Hi again,
Sorry, I completely misread your post and thought this was a new thread! I must have been half asleep. My apologies.
I agree, it does seem strange and I don't feel confident agreeing that this is an 18th c vase. As I suggested, if you post photos maybe we could have a better look.
Julia
Thank you for the replies.
Here's the pictures and most welcome any comments. It basically makes an identical pair with the newly vase listed by Migularry.
After switching to and fro several times I would say it's the same vase, except yours has a few scratches on the upper left side of the flower. I'm almost sure that it isn't an 18th century vase. Rather late Qing. Is it possible that the buyer gets a copy and then the next copy is listed with always the same pictures? A negative rating buyer said that what he got was different from the pictures.
I have not bought from the seller myself. The items on Ebay look like a mixed bag to me with some authentic export pieces and others that I wouldn't buy.
Birgit
After switching to and fro several times I would say it's the same vase, except yours has a few scratches on the upper left side of the flower. I'm almost sure that it isn't an 18th century vase. Rather late Qing. Is it possible that the buyer gets a copy and then the next copy is listed with always the same pictures? A negative rating buyer said that what he got was different from the pictures.
I have not bought from the seller myself. The items on Ebay look like a mixed bag to me with some authentic export pieces and others that I wouldn't buy.
The vase that I bought back in 2023 is still in my possession, and it is a different vase from the newly listed one, there are subtle differences that can be spotted from the man and the deer on the two vases. While both vases look convincing to be old to my untrained eyes (despite they may not be 18C), the odds that two seemingly identical vase being sold by the same seller within 2 years seems alarming enough. I suspect both vases are new but well made copies.
This seller is well-known on eBay and for the most part his items are genuine.
However, it is my opinion (and I have asked other dealers from time to time about some of his listing's and they were not impressed) that he also sells a number of high quality reproductions as genuine on his site. Whether he does this knowingly is something I do not know as I do not know him personally.
I would ask Peter for his opinion on the vase you purchased or wait for further opinions here on the forum.
In my opinion both these vases are high-quality reproductions.
Mark
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