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Dear all,
This has been already discussed a bit. Nevertheless it is important IMO to draw attention again to shamefully policy of ebay, protecting only bidders, including the bandits, and not at all the sellers.
With all evidence, they believe that there always be enough sellers around.
I said, some times ago, that I have been forced by ebay to take back a Kangxi dish because the buyer said that a difference of thickness due to glaze dripping was a damage. Yes, damage!! A four-year old boy has more understanding abilities than that seller and ebay’ staff together.
A while ago, another buyer that with all evidence was not satisfied with the real thing, despite the quality of my pictures, intentionally broke a vase and ask a refund. I am ABSOLUTELY sure that he intentionally broke the vase. My packings are super safe, and besides that in the pictures he provided it was clear that the parcel was intact. I did no questions and refund him totally. Why should I open a case, knowing perfectly that ebay will be in his favor anyway, and of I take back the broken vase I will have to pay import duties? Refund sent to the not honest buyer and stop, complete loss.
But the big problems are non-paying bidders. That is a serious damage. There is no way to defend we sellers from that. I do sell through ebay.com because of visibility; the only way to contact ebay.com is through telephone. Is that thinkable that a problem like this has to be solved by telephone? Without official answers, nothing written, with different opinions according to whom is at the other end of the line? That is a clear way of saying “that’s your matter, do not bore us”.
I do not know if Peter has a high-level contact at ebay. If he has, he should tell them that a serious policy against non-paying bidders is locking of their IP address. Not their account. Blocking the account is ridiculous, it takes seconds to open a new one. That is an important matter, because non paying bidders cause a big damage to the sellers.
In fact, for some illogical reason an item relisted because of not having been paid is always fetching a fraction of the previous price. Besides that, the second high bidder is never interested on the second chance offer; in almost all cases they even do not answer to your proposal. Not even a “No, thank you”.
Apropos of senseless behavior (nothing to do with the above ebay’s policy matter): can someone explain what is passing in the brain of people (the majority!) who is willimg to pay a certain amount for a vase, and much less for the same vase if in pair with a damaged one? That is an obscure mystery to me.
If one pays 10 for a vase, he should logically pay not less than 10 for the same vase pus an identical one, forming a pair, but damaged, no? No, it has always been the opposite: “oh, that one is damaged, so this one too has less value”. Crazy, really crazy and not understandable.
I have on sale by now a pair of qianjiang vases with a not common motif, that had both these disgraces, it has not been paid and one of them is damaged.
In fact at the first listing, when it has not been paid, the pair fetched much less than an identical single vase that I sold times ago. So now it is expected to have lower offers. I am sure that if I will list the single one in good conditions, the result will be better.
Sorry, but my ethic is stronger, I refuse to split a pair, it is a crime IMO. Then I relisted it at the previous sold price. If not sold, then no problem, I will keep it, but at least I can say that I have not bowed to the will of stupid attitudes.
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni, I agree to what you say about Ebay. I have sold there from time to time since 2001 and I have the impression that it got worse with non-paying buyers in the course of the years. Also I have never ever got a response from a second bidder and always sold for less in the second go.
Birgit
Hi Giovanni,
I haven’t sold on eBay for some time so cannot comment. But I must admit I did laugh when I read the paragraph about people paying less for a pair with one being damaged than the same vase, singly that is perfect! I have noticed that too! I think there is some psychological block? But it is idiotic, you’re right.
They walk among us!?
Nic
🙂 I admit my best buys are when one of a pair is broken. Then you get the good one cheap.
@giovanni I have said this before, If you search on ebay you will find in support there is a chat option. These guys are actually very good at helping resolve problems and can contact the buyer and negotiate and or pressure them to make a payment if they bid and do not pay.
It is free, online chat in support, it can be hard to find but it is there. Once you find chat , then just post the item number and they will be able to understand everything.
Thank you dear Birgit and Nic.
Dear ShortDong, do you mean chat with ebay' staff? If yes, that is totally useless in my opinion. Ebay only actions are through automated processes. They send an automatic message to the buyer, if he even doesn’t answer then they do nothing, it is up to you to close the case. And if you seller do not ask ebay’s fees refund, you even have to pay ebay for a sale that didn’t happen.
They will lock the buyer account only after a certain number of unpaid cases. If they really were interested in avoiding these frauds, they should block the IP address of the buyer. In that case he will think twice before choosing not to pay, because he will not be able to access ebay anymore unless he will move to a new house.
Giovanni
@Giovanni
Yes, I did mean online chat. Through the chat option. Ebay does have a weakness and it is not a buyer versus seller situation. Buyers also face ebay's draconian system and if a seller cancels my order, I get the refund but i cannot chase the seller or punish them. Also I always have to pay if i win unless the seller cancels for me.
The problem is just as you say, a buyer is more likely to open new accounts and commit fraud and these buyers have no reputation and come and go, and it seems, in fact ebay's policy supports this kind of behaviour.
If Ebay are serious about Antique sales they need a personnel that can resolve issues, such as you say where a buyer stated that the glaze was damage on the Kangxi is ridiculous and Ebay should have the proper staff to understand how that is not an acceptable reason for a refund.
Also a service like what Peter offers with $12 appraisal would be a great way for buyers and sellers alike to prove or demonstrate that indeed an item is genuine and or fake, and as for condition of a sold Antique item then EBAY needs to treat Antiques differently in that respect ..although this can get complicated in high sale items.
I have sympathy for you Giovanni in dealing with buyers that are trying to take money and have no respect for the item.
Thank you dear Shortong.
It would be good if sellers and buyers together would join in a sort of class group, forcing ebay to block the IP address and not just the account of non paying bidders. That would benefit everyone, including buyers which are often outbidded by those pirates.
Giovanni
Dear All,
Could not find the chat option on Ebay Australia. So I just googled Ebay Chat and found it. You then have to log on to participate no good posting the link as it's for Australia. But it might work in your country and link you to your country's Ebay chat if you do the same search.
Most of your should be glad that you do not sell items in Australia because recent consumer protection laws mean that every sale made has an effective 30 day return cooling off period. Ebay will automatically give you bad feed back unless you adjust your return policy to 30 days. This law can include the customer just changing their minds. It also includes me selling my 20 year old lawn mower if I state working but it stops working within 30 days.
Michael
A while ago, another buyer that with all evidence was not satisfied with the real thing, despite the quality of my pictures, intentionally broke a vase and ask a refund. I am ABSOLUTELY sure that he intentionally broke the vase. My packings are super safe, and besides that in the pictures he provided it was clear that the parcel was intact. I did no questions and refund him totally. Why should I open a case, knowing perfectly that ebay will be in his favor anyway, and of I take back the broken vase I will have to pay import duties? Refund sent to the not honest buyer and stop, complete loss.
In fact, for some illogical reason an item relisted because of not having been paid is always fetching a fraction of the previous price. Besides that, the second high bidder is never interested on the second chance offer; in almost all cases they even do not answer to your proposal. Not even a “No, thank you”.
In fact at the first listing, when it has not been paid, the pair fetched much less than an identical single vase that I sold times ago. So now it is expected to have lower offers. I am sure that if I will list the single one in good conditions, the result will be better.
Sorry, but my ethic is stronger, I refuse to split a pair, it is a crime IMO. Then I relisted it at the previous sold price. If not sold, then no problem, I will keep it, but at least I can say that I have not bowed to the will of stupid attitudes.
Hello, I'm new here but a long time eBay buyer and seller.
So on the first point above, I always insure. I know some people self insure but when you're dealing in items in the high 3 figure to 4 figure range I find it always makes more sense to insure than take the loss. I've had my share of issues with collecting on insurance but ultimately it usually works out in my favor.
As for relisted items, it truly is the kiss of death. You may as well just sit on it for a year and resist then. I think it's because there is an assumption that if the high bidder found something wrong with it then there must be a non disclosed problem. If enough time hasn't elapsed that the buyer could have received and returned it then there is an assumption that the bidding may have been padded. While it seems illogical because it's exactly the same piece you listed the first time for buyers it sets off a few alarm bells on the item.
Oh, this is very good information on the pairs. I really didn't know this and this will be very helpful for me in both buying and selling.
🙂 I admit my best buys are when one of a pair is broken. Then you get the good one cheap.
@giovanni I have said this before, If you search on ebay you will find in support there is a chat option. These guys are actually very good at helping resolve problems and can contact the buyer and negotiate and or pressure them to make a payment if they bid and do not pay.
It is free, online chat in support, it can be hard to find but it is there. Once you find chat , then just post the item number and they will be able to understand everything.
Chat has been very useful for me, and they email you a transcript.
Thank all dears.
Chat doesn't work in my case. Ebay has this absurd policy of having different platforms according to the Country, with different rules. If I list on ebay Italy I have no international visibility. So I list on ebay.com, where it is possible to contact ebay only through phone. I can't do that because of my horrible spoken english.
Giovanni
That's annoying for you. It is a shame you can't use Ebay.co.uk instead.
Hi Giovanni - a very interesting thread, with some insightful replies. I do not sell on eBay, but it must be extremely annoying and frustrating when faced with the ongoing problems you have raised and have had to try sort out and deal with, my sympathises. As for the discussions regarding pairs, long ago I was told that it was always better to have such and worth paying a higher amount for, even if one was damaged! It would appear that now, for some bidders/buyers, such is not the case and a reduction in the price offered is asked for!! An 'intriguing perception' such people have - or perhaps just crazy!!! ? ?
Stuart
Yes dear Stuart, it has no explication.
Thank you.
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni,
Blocking IP addresses won't work either. many people use their mobile phones and can place bids from anywhere, using local WIFI.
On ebay, there are more scandalous acts in my view, one is to charge commission on shipping costs, costs you really have and they get a commission. Really weird. And the absurd exchange rates they use for dollar/euro. Not sure if that is ebay or paypal but also there they make money. And finally, the place is flooded with fakes. They must also know that when a chinese seller puts up an 18th century vase stating it is an antique original in perfect condition for 99 usd, it is a fake ? In that sense they are also not protecting sellers, but certainly also not the buyers.
Kind regards
staartmees
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