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@julia Hi Julia I wanted to follow up on wire method in the early period until late Qing and modern. I loop late Qing and modern wire methods in the same class. Since they were manufactured and spun on a roll cut and soldered. Earlier periods the wire was casted cut hammered and bent. Late Qing to modern the wire will be very uniform early cloisonné will look uneven hammered. I have included two photos one early 20th and my cup. Which I still believe is much earlier.
And I’m adding another photo one is 20th and again my cup it’s the feathers.
@lotusblack I love being able to see side by side comparisons, so thank you for showing those. Do you know what date range that change took place in how the wire was made?
@johnshoe early pieces are bronze wire later and modern are copper and brass. 19th century is the transition time but I’m not sure of exact year. If my cloisonné is authentic it was most likely used in temple.
@lotusblack Do you believe it was mounted to something or is that just a vent hole in the base? It is a pretty piece, good luck on your sale.
@sharonp I believe it was mounted to a base the base has been a good clue for me it has several tales. I’m thinking if the piece was not gilded the entire thing would have the green corrosion. My thought is this was a temple offering cup of some sort.
That´s interesting with that hundereds of meters of handforged wires- one should have told that chinese-marathon-smithes that drawplates are avaiable since 9th century before christ, from the persian, roman, and european smithes; works like a charm combined with wind- or watermills, and produces some astonishing uniform wire.
Thanks Brian, especially for providing pictures. I will look at the photos carefully on my computer. I knew the cloison wires on older pieces were less uniform but when it comes to the making, preparing, storing etc of the metal I know nothing. Thank you.
@dante I get my information from creditable sources and study. I have to go with what experts say and curators. I have looks at many pieces in the museum I have yet to find one that has uniform wire from earlier times yes it’s can be high quality but I can always locate the hammer marks. 20th century cloisonné does not have this feature.
Met Museum
Cloisonné is the technique of creating designs on metal vessels with colored-glass paste placed within enclosures made of copper or bronze wires, which have been bent or hammered into the desired pattern. Known as cloisons (French for “partitions”), the enclosures generally are either pasted or soldered onto the metal body. The glass paste, or enamel, is colored with metallic oxide and painted into the contained areas of the design. The vessel is usually fired at a relatively low temperature, about 800°C. Enamels commonly shrink after firing, and the process is repeated several times to fill in the designs. Once this process is complete, the surface of the vessel is rubbed until the edges of the cloisons are visible. They are then gilded, often on the edges, in the interior, and on the base.
Ah, yes - one question left, why to "hammer" a presumably drawn copper based alloy wire not stronger than 1.5 mm that is easy to bend ? "Your" sources might be credible but please, magnify, specify hammer marks; side of the wire ? top of the wire ? where do you see them ?
Here is a perfect example you can see the hammer marks in the center. The other picture is Met Museum Qainlong
Ahhh yes; i see the light - got them on a piece of my own too ! Praise the lord...
..
@dante I am not a cloisonne maker but it seems easy to see how sometimes bending and other times hammering would make sense and probably both techniques could leave some indications on the wire don't you think?
I do not know; even so different drawing speed by using of a wind dependent mill might leave some marks. Thats work in progress; even the real experts are not of one opinion.
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Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
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Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
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Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
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