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I’m traveling West and I stopped in Santa Fe NM. I went to a consignment store and asked if they had any Asian pieces the nice lady said yes this just came in yesterday. Well it left today. I have never seen anything like this cloisonné but there are several clues. One thing I know it’s not modern. What do you guys think. The lightning in the hotel is horrible.
I can't believe you're making me ask, but can we see the bottom por favor?
Well, a most interesting little beast you've found. I know you've spent a lot more time researching cloisonne than I have, so let me ask you a question. Does Ming cloisonne always have lots of pitting or does it not on some occasions? And if sometimes it does not have pitting, are those only on the finest pieces? If so, then I would say you either have a very nice Ming piece or if not then a very cool and interesting 19th/early 20th example, because it probably lacks the refinement to be high quality earlier-mid Qing.
@johnshoe there are lots of Ming cloisonné with minimal pitting. The clue for me is the wire being used style and details. Was the wire hand forged or was it manufactured. If hand forged it’s period is Ming to early Qing if the wire is manufactured it’s late Qing Early 20th century.
@lotusblack Is the use of pink a clue as to age? I think I remember reading that somewhere, not sure they used pink in very early pieces but wait for someone who remembers exactly, it is interesting. I think I would definitely be asking Peter about it.
@sharonp I do think pink and enamel colors are clues In earlier cloisonné pink was mixed enamels later it was no longer mixed. Pink tends to be darker and brighter in later Qing.
Brian, I am not technical so may I ask how you can tell if wires are hand-made or machine made? Someone mentioned it the other day and I had no idea.
It is in an interesting piece you've found. Is the hole from manufacture or wear? I guess it could have been mounted on something. You didn't say how old you think it is, either.
I don't think it is Ming, I think the yellow is wrong, but I need to look at it on a bigger screen.
@lotusblack The pink as an homogeneous color was avaiable from early qing at least; it came from the west by transfer of technologies "... European glass technology had discovered the chemistry for creating the right type of gold ( comment: or selenium ) compound by the 17th century. The powerful early Qing emperors employed visiting Jesuits from Europe to develop, among other things, the ability for the imperial workshops to produce this gold pink enamel first for porcelain and then cloisonne, especially during the 60-year 18th century reign of Qianlong..." I saw some old pieces with lesser pitting - but no one with NO pitting - it´s in the nature of the recipes of the time. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/arts/design/18cloisonne.html - this foto was taken from a greater distance ; if you magnify it ( looking glass is enough for that, no kidding ) you´ll see the difference to your piece. Your piece seems to be casted in a more " industrial way " - not lost wax. you´ll see a dividing line on the bottom and can trace it further. In my opinion it is mid to late 19th century; but nicely done.
Don´t know if that article is behind a "pay-bar"; so here is that foto in addition.
Thank for the input here is an article to help with the construction.
Bronze vessels were cast not by the lost-wax process (using a wax mold), as formerly supposed, but in sectional molds, quantities of which have been found at Shang sites. In this complex process, which reflects the Chinese early mastery of the ceramic medium, a clay model of the body is built around a solid core representing the vessel’s interior; clay moldingis used to encase the model, then sliced into sections and removed; the model is eliminated; the mold pieces are reconstructed around the core, using metal spacers to separate mold and core; and molten bronze is poured into the hollow space. Legs, handles, and appended sculpture are often cast separately and later integrated in a lock-on pour. Surface decoration may be added to the model surface before the mold is applied, requiring a double transfer from clay to clay to metal, or added in reverse to the mold surface after its removal from the model, with an incised design on the mold yielding a raised design on the metal surface. Ritual vessels range from about 15 cm (6 inches) to more than 130 cm (50 inches) in height with weights up to 875 kg (1,925 pounds). The intricacy and sharpness of the decoration shows that by the end of the 2nd millennium BCE the art of bronze casting in China was the most advanced in the world.
@julia my thought on age is it isn’t of the Ming period the design to me seems extreme and the enamels are to refined. But I don’t believe it’s Early 20th century. Manufacturing process was a little different I will explain the wire more in detail when I can get better pictures. So that leaves a large window in time. One time period stands out for me with being very experimental where items like this were being created Qainlong. Buy I don’t think it was during his reign but later into the next reign so I need to find a comparable for around 1800.
I´m not sure about that beeing generally correct for the era of interest (not 2000 BC ), and if their way of constructing it would give the same appearance as on your piece.
I don't think it is early 20th c either, nor do I think 18th. I was leaning towards late 19th but I still haven't made time for a good look.
@julia If I sell it I will probably list it as late Qing or 19th century without a comparison it would fall in line with that time. If it was made late Qing there has to be another somewhere. I probably won’t keep it because I focus on Japanese cloisonné and the cup stands out to blend into that collection.
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