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Here are some examples. I am mainly posting this thread to ask Tam a question about a guideline, he always mentions. To avoid the footrims that appear like sugar rather than say oatmeal.
Others have brought attention to foot-rims that curve out rather than in. Also there are these foot rims that form a spear shape. I know these are not set rules but merits of working knowledge, but many 19thc listed chinese blue and white vases and cylinder vase's have these white Foot rims.
Here are a few examples.
First is obviously very modern 1980
This is listed as 19th Century
This is listed as 19thc
This is listed as Chinese Antique
I think it depends really , Buff coloured footrims are typical on 18th century porcelain , Kangxi and Ming can be Pure white and very compact like stone , 19th century come mainly in cream and white but a rougher grainier texture , into the 20th century the footrims look like crystal or sugary .
Try buying a broken plate cheaply from each Kangxi - Yongzheng - Qianlong - early and a late 19th century and then a 20th century one for reference and you will soon see the difference.
Carl
Carl
So the Second example fits the bill for sugary?
Hi SD,
Carl is right about the different texture of foot rims over the centuries. The way the foot rim attaches to the bottom is also important. Of course there are many exceptions, but I tried to sketch some typical foot rims here. Very poor drawings but I hope you see what I mean. Sorry I see now that the two last pictures look almost similar. The curve on modern items is smoother than on late Qing ones.
Birgit
Hi Birgit! Thanks! Your sketches are very informative!
SD - from looking at the colour/style of the painting, I’d have said that 2,3 and 4 were late 19th century. But we’ll see what the experienced guys think!
Nic
Short
It looks like it could be late Qing or republic , I cannot really tell from the pics though you would need to to take some extreme close-ups with macro enabled on your camera , Natural outside light.
when i say sugary , I mean like a sugar cube it's hard to explain but when you see it once you will see what i mean.
Carl
From the general painting style (as good as the pictures allow that to see it) I'd say none of these is really old. The second example is probably Kangxi revival, probably not. The foot rim is only an additional feature, the first criterion is the painting style as Giovanni so often said.
Carl, I have often noted a very smooth, marble-like touch on modern footrims, is that what you mean by sugary?
Birgit
Birgit
I marble like tough is a sign of very fine high quality paste , This should be very evident on Kangxi and 18th century feet , into the 19th century the paste is lower quality and grainy so you get thicker feet with a grainy feel that often carry a lot more dirt as the paste is less dense , into the 20th century it should still feel grainier than the smooth 18th century feet but more crystal sugary feel.
If you get the chance to buy a broken plate from each era the difference becomes quite clear. I will try and post a few images later.
Carl
The first base and foot is a Qianlong 18th century piece , normally either flat or pointing inward with either a pure white or buff coloured very smooth dense fine quality paste and sharper edges like marble.
The second base is into the 19th century where you will see the paste being rougher grainier and collecting more dirt because of that , the feet seem to start becoming more rounded and fatter , sometimes more flatter as well.
The third piece is 20th century , notice how the feet have a more crystal look rather than grainy , these can feel smooth but not the same fine dense paste as 18th century .
I admit it is more noticeable to the feel rather than the eye and there are always exceptions to the rule this is just a basic guideline.
Hope it helps a little anyway
Carl
Thank you Carl, that’s very informative!
Birgit
I agree it's hard to tell from the photos in the first post; for example the dragon sleeve vase could be very late C19th or into the 1920s, even though the foot is not typical for C19th pieces, a lot seems to depend on the size of the piece. And as you say many of these kangxi revival pieces seem to have quite white rather than buff coloured feet. But I would not describe the texture of that foot as 'sugary' - it's more grainy and open .
The globular vase looks to have a more typical rounded and buff C19th foot, with iron oxide traces, but you could not be certain, just from the foot, of its age.
tam
I agree it's hard to tell from the photos in the first post; for example the dragon sleeve vase could be very late C19th or into the 1920s, even though the foot is not typical for C19th pieces, a lot seems to depend on the size of the piece. And as you say many of these kangxi revival pieces seem to have quite white rather than buff coloured feet. But I would not describe the texture of that foot as 'sugary' - it's more grainy and open .
The globular vase looks to have a more typical rounded and buff C19th foot, with iron oxide traces, but you could not be certain, just from the foot, of its age.
Thank you Tam and Carl, I was trying to better define Tam's rule about the 'sugary' base. Thanks you Brigit for your Schematics and you have a good and writing style. I like the flair of your 1's.
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