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Here are a few little tips I've pick up along the way (in no particular order).
You've probably heard (correctly), that an easy way to spot a fake, is when the decoration contains parts of different myths/stories - the trouble is, if you don't know all the Chinese stories, that doesn't help!
Here are a few things I've found very helpful - and easy to apply.
Kangxi plates are usually decorated under the rim. This decoration should look like a few free flowing brush strokes. If it looks like a carefully drawn object - then its probably not Kangxi (probably Kangxi revival, late 19th Century, or modern). This does not apply to bowls - its plates/chargers only.
Beware of straight tree trunks. Tree trunks should always curve. If you see straight up and down tree trunks (other than tiny stuff in the distant background), then you're probably looking at something modern (no matter how good it looks).
Chinese faces - the mouth should be two straight (or almost straight) lines - with the upper lip longest and lower lip a much shorter straight lines. Occasionally you'll see a tiny uptick at the end of the upper lip. If you see more, then its probably into the 20th Century.
Eyes. Late 1800's to early 1900's you see these unusually big eyes.
Dragon toes - if its got five toes, it either comes with an explanation why its not in the Imperial collection, and wasn't destroyed because of a glaring manufacturing failure, or it was made at the end of the Guangxu period or thereafter - ie beware of dragons with five toes!
Glaze texture - run your hand over the glaze (polychrome) - if it feels dry, that's not good! There are some very good fakes made in China - ie those intended to be sold in Sothebys etc. One of the things they got wrong with the early (1990's versions), was the glaze texture - it feels too dry. That's been fixed, so it won't help you on a top grade fake, but it does come in very handy when trying to tell second half of the 20th Century examples with the real thing. Antique polychrome feels like blue and white when you run your hands over it. Second half of the 20th Century polychrome feels dry (not lumpy, but dry), compared to the white glazed areas.
Antique plates (and bowls), are usually not perfectly round - ie, their diameter will be a bit different as you go around the edge. Typically they are off 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch in diameter from the widest to the narrowest diameter. Beware of antique plates that are exactly the same diameter all around. That's not to say they don't exist, but antique hand made examples tend not to have machine made precision.
These are not my own conclusions, they have been taught in seminars by some of the top English speaking scholars. That being said, I'm sure there are a few exceptions. But when it comes to practical hands on helpful info, I've found them very useful
Lastly, wood shrinks across the grain faster than it does along the grain. Unless the wood is bone dry when its first carved (ie really good gun stock for example), it will shrink over the years - and it will shrink asymmetrically. Look for this in wood bases - they should be longer along the grain, than across the grain (if antique)
Thank you for taking the time to share that with us. ?
This is an Imperial Dragon Bowl,genuine but damaged. There are pieces out there but you have to keep looking and be lucky.
The one bit of advice I would give is that you shouldn't generalse as there are virtually no rules when it comes to Chinese porcelain and by being too rigid you can miss good pieces.
Provincial auction houses are my hunting ground,no experts and plenty of fakes so just take the rough with the smooth.
Vic
Thank you, that’s really interesting. Also thanks for talking about the black color, that’s something I never thought about though modern items often had a „wrong“ look in my eyes.
Birgit
There are lots of rules - glaze colours did not get discovered until a particular time, and forgetting them is a good way to get into trouble.
Five toe dragon Imperial Ming bowls with new repairs...……...hummmm……...something I'm not going to pay to much attention to!
Most of you have probably heard of Samson, the French maker. They used to, and may still do, offer to sell a brand new example of their "Chinese Export" with or without repairs!
I remember about 10 or maybe 12 years ago, Chinese stuff started showing up at auction with staple repairs - only problem - they used the wrong kind of staples...……..lol
I can pretty well guarantee that if you want to order a Ming Jiajing Imperial, mark and period blue and white dragon bowl, you can get one made in China that will look convincing in photos...…….and if you buy the deluxe version, they'll make it in a wood fired kiln so it has just the right amount of kiln dust trapped in the glaze, and put it through an X-ray machine just enough to pass a thermoluminescence test. If something that was once in the Imperial City, is now in an English provincial auction, you need to ask yourself why? If an ancestor raided the Summer Palace, or was the leader of a Country, then maybe. If not, maybe it was made in the 1920's, or 30's or 40's when most of these Imperial mark and period Ming Bowls were created using the same wood fired kilns they used during the Ming Dynasty. They look similar, and at that time, they were free to make 5 toe dragon bowls without having their hands cut off, or worse (so they made lots)
The idea is to avoid the obvious fakes
Shine 🙂 If that imperial bowl was professionally restored could it not fetch ten times a much?
Hi Avionsunantiques -
As with others, thank you for taking the time to share all this with us.
One of the things I have learned is that, although there are accepted 'norms' for all periods, there are - as you quite rightly mention - always exceptions, so some flexibility between reigns and periods must be allowed, especially concerning the dating of objects.
This applies to Imperial wares, but is especially relevant to objects produced by the minyao or 'private' kilns, where shapes, motifs, overall designs and glazes could, if popular, be produced for several decades with little overall alterations.
Stuart
I don’t know SD,a major auction house would not be interested in selling such a heavily restored Bowl.
I had considered a Kintsuji repair as this would be more sympathetic rather than a professional hidden repair.
At the end of the day I decided to list it but I don’t expect it to sell.
Beautiful blues and bubbles that float beneath the surface. Probably the only genuine Imperial piece on EBay and virtually ignored,such is the paradox of EBay.
I saw a Dragon and Carp standard plate sell for $600+ dollars this eeek and the same plate,larger and in better condition sold for $128.
Same site,same visibility and I’m pretty sure same bullshit auctions.
Vic
Shine, you may want to look at a few genuine mark and period foot rims, paste colour (and marks for that matter), before you conclude its being unfairly ignored!
Avionsun,I suggest you learn a little more if you are calling my item a fake.
Vic
I agree this bowl may not be ming - the top rim looks too clean and undamaged to be so old, and there seem to be no scratches or marks on the interior- the footrim looks as though it could have been deliberately 'aged' - just my thoughts . Genuine items at the right price usually find a buyer on ebay
tam
The biggest sellers of Chinese ceramics are generally selling fakes,Littlemeintexas and other well known names,usually Chinese living in the West with a good supply line to China.
Many so called auction houses are really no such thing at all,generally the information is there if you do a little digging on the address.
Chait is another,the real Chait dealer of high repute is in New York,and not the other. Check the available stories and criminal records if you think I'm talking rubbish.
I don't peddle fakes and truly can assure you of the authenticity of my Jiajing Bowl.
The fact that you have doubts I can't change and all opinions should be listened to and considered.
The interaction of the Jesuit and other Western religious orders on the development of enamels is probably the most important element in Qing porcelain.
Only the other day on another site there were doubts on a very good sellers Transitional pair of Vases because the foot was said 'not to be Transitional'.There are really very few rigid rules on Chinese porcelain and seeing and handling as many pieces as possible is the best method of learning.
The big questions never answered for me is the lack of real information on kilns and such like from mainland China. As an example,in the U.k and almost all of Europe we have written records on specific Potters and their factories (u.k from around 1560's)with known sites and Sherds to see patterns,enamels etc. Italy from 1400's,Potters migrating to France,Netherlands,Spain etc.
Where is the information on private Chinese Kilns,etc,where are the written records which should be in abundance from such a Country as China ? Japan has specific records on founding dates of Kilns and individual potters but there is next to nothing from the Country that discovered porcelain.
Where are the examples of local market Qing porcelain,not Imperial ? We have thousands of Ming pieces around,mostly underfired but charming pieces showing what local people used.
Basically there is too little information from China and just an endless supply of fakes flooding into the West.
The last piece of chicanery by Bonhams mentioned by Stuart on the Green Dragon Dish is perhaps now the most worrying of developments,if the top auction houses are prepared to pull such stunts it will soon be every man for himself.
What I'm saying Shine, is if this bowl was presented to the Emperor, the potter would probably of been executed.
The foot rim isn't even finished. The glaze flaws alone inside the foot rim would have been enough to get smashed at the kiln.
Low quality items like this were only made with five toe dragons AFTER it was safe to do so - that period, is after the end of the Qing Dynasty, or in the end period of the Guangxu period.
For your piece to be correct, it must be an Imperial piece, and it lacks the perfectly finished state to be such.
If it had a different design, then you could argue it was made in a provincial kiln, or for a low level official - but neither of those arguments can be made given its design.
I don’t know SD,a major auction house would not be interested in selling such a heavily restored Bowl.
I had considered a Kintsuji repair as this would be more sympathetic rather than a professional hidden repair.
At the end of the day I decided to list it but I don’t expect it to sell.
Beautiful blues and bubbles that float beneath the surface. Probably the only genuine Imperial piece on EBay and virtually ignored,such is the paradox of EBay.
I saw a Dragon and Carp standard plate sell for $600+ dollars this eeek and the same plate,larger and in better condition sold for $128.
Same site,same visibility and I’m pretty sure same bullshit auctions.
Vic
Whatever the provenance of the bowl, it is unique and i am sure someone knows more about it.
As for ebay, and similar items selling at different prices. I experienced that today!. There is no doubt a bad picture or a incorrect listing can push your item into a more obscure or irrelevant audience.
Only ebay knows what the most popular search lines are. For me my starting point is the following below which is the most General and Covers everything:
eBay > Antiques > Asian Antiques
However if i am searching for British Porcelain:
eBay > Pottery,Porcelain,Glass > Dated -Lined Ceramics > Dated -Lined Ceramics ( Pre-c.1840)
or art noveua
eBay > Pottery,Porcelain,Glass > Dated -Lined Ceramics > Art Nouveau Date-Lined Ceramics (1890-1919)
This search is important.....
The there are specific searches i.e Cloisonne, Satsuma,Kutani, or just Japanese vase. If you take the last search Nortiake & Nipponware
and search here for say a Nortiake tea set, you will find they are all very expensive, however if you search not under that tag but under Japanase Tea set you will find noritake listed there also, and they even say Noritake but they are not listed under the Noritake @ Nipponware Search tag.
This is good for the buyer and not for seller.
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