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Could you help me to identify it?
Thank you: Teo
Dear Teo,
No, not a Yongzheng mark and period bowl here. Rather, I think it's likely to be a 20th century product.
Best wishes,
Alan
Thank you Alan, but I found it, please check these sites:
and I found a photo too:
Hi, what Alan means by not “mark and period” is that it is not from the yongzheng period. He didn’t mean the mark didn’t say yongzheng. Just not from that period, hence a newer copy.
Kevin
Yes I agree this is a modern copy . The enamel colours, especially the dark green and harsh yellow are probably wrong for the period , and the decoration/painting is of poor quality, imo.
Here's an example of a real one
tam
Teo,
This is a so-called “apocryphal” or “spurious” mark commonly found on modern pieces.
George
Also, marks not mark and period are either copies trying to seem authentic or a sort of “tribute” to the porcelain craftsmanship of the past. Qianlong brought Qing porcelain to its culminating point and thus is widely used after his reign even today.
The first important point which tells us immediately that this bowl is not old is the fact that the decoration is printed and not hand made.
The second point that should suggest anyone to stay away from it is the style of the decoration, that has nothing to do with Chinese traditional style, it is only vaguely recalling it.
And the third point, but this is only for those who has some experience, is that the mark made that way (blue background on a white glaze) simply does not exist.
Giovanni
A note about the blue and white small vase from Dubey posted by Teo: that is a not bad soft paste porcelain scent bottle, or snuff bottle if you wish. It could be 19th century, not a bad one.
But surely not Yongzheng as Dubey is claiming, which means that they are not so expert.
Giovanni
Giovanni is right, the pattern is clearly printed and then quite sloppily painted over. A bad quality modern item, keep off. Somehow I can't find a connection to the Dubey's link you give, maybe they changed the entry in the meantime.
Birgit
Thank you very much everyone:) It helped a lot. Is there any good book about marks/period/colors/etc? I would like to learn more about this culture
Giovanni, What does it mean to you (not a bad one)?:)
Dear Teo,
if you are starting to learn about Chinese ceramics, I suggest you to not mind about marks. They are the last thing to look at. Marks has to be considered only, and really only, after a piece has been judged genuine.
If beside being genuine it has also a genuine mark, then it is a plus.
There are many books that can be recommended, it depends in which area are you focusing your interest. Chinese ceramics is a vast field.
By “not a bad one” I meant that it is just a nice scent bottle, not a very nice one but worth to be collected.
The Yongzheng mark on snuff and scent bottles is common, but of course apocryphal.
Giovanni
I have found some books:) , but how can you determine it from the pictures (printed or handmade)?
If the black line is very neat and would take a lot of care to be painted by hand and then the guy with the color brush just dabs his color in a careless way, you can be sure it's printed. Also look on the red patterns on the inside of the bowl: each one looks exactly the same, another sign for printing.
Here are some books I can really recommend, especially "The detection of fakes":
Birgit
Teo,
you have to train your eye, that is the more important. Once your eye is trained after having seen many genuine pieces at Museums, reliable auctions and good books, you immediately spot the genuine from the wrong. There is nothing to learn in looking at fakes.
The hardest thing to replicate is the "hand". Each period has its own hand, and that is not mistakable. A sketched line drawn by a hand that does it many times a day, every day, is very different from the same line made by someone that is copying it.
After that learn to recognize the right shape. Material, type of enamels etc etc comes after and only as a side support if all the previous points are ok. You can have a very typical Kangxi blue and a very pale blue, still both are Kangxi. You do not have to focus on this.
If, after everything is ok, I see that there is a mark, all what I say is “oh, look, there is also a mark”. ?
Giovanni
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