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Hi Everyone,
Hope you are well.
A couple of months ago I purchased this plate from Shangrila in the Netherlands and they described it simply as a Ming plate. It's about 7" across. I submitted it for Peter Combs' appraisal and he told me he thought it was Wanli, from around 1600.
My question is: is it Jingdezhen or Zhangzhou (Swato) ware? It doesn't seem to have the heaviness typically ascribed to Zhangzhou exports so I'm thinking, despite the crude elements, that its from Jigdezheng. It's the only Ming plate that I've been able to handle so I am a novice on these issues.
Thank you!
-Steve
They didn't list it as Swatow and they always do - I remember this plate because I liked it - so I bet it's not!
That's true, they just said it was Ming. I was thrilled to win the auction! This pattern isn't that unique, but it's a good example of it. I like the crisp details of the phoenix's legs especially.
The descriptions of Swato ware include sand in the foot rim, which this has, but so do a lot of export Ming wares. It's pretty thin and produces a ring when tapped.
A very nice dish. To me it looks a bit like Kraak ware, not Swatow.
Birgit
Dear Steve,
the reason why the seller didn’t say if it is Swatow or Jingdezhen is simply because that is matter of debate for this type of well known plates, for what I know.
Some say they are Swatow, some not. The reason is that they look finer than clear Swatows, while at the same time less refined than real Jingdezhen.
Anyway, surely late Ming.
Regards,
Giovanni
Hi Steve,
This is not a Kraak piece, although some consider it a precursor of such wares ...
The tied emblems interspersed with fruit, sprays, possibly peach, on the rim, with fruit sprays and flowers with long tendrils/leafs was first seen on pieces from the Jiajing period, as indeed was the central phoenix, and continued into the early 17th century ...
Whether such pieces were made at Jingdezhen, one of the southern kilns or both is, as Giovanni says, is a much debated point ...
Personally, I don't think such pieces are Swatow - but agree with a Wanli dating attribution ...
Stuart
Thank you Giovanni and Stuart for clearing that up. Much appreciated! That would explain the vague descriptions from the seller and Peter.
Regards,
Steve
Thank you, Birgit. It's a charming piece for sure.
I'd be interested in someday handling Swatow pieces to get a better sense of them.
It's definitely not Kraak because it doesn't have the segmented rim design.
Hi Steve,
My two cents as the seller. Its Wanli, most likely pre 1600. Jingdezhen. The back decoration is something thats is also seen a lot on Jiajing wares so that is why i say pre 1600. Imho it is still more Jiajing than it is what we would say Kraak. The body is heavy and thick. Later on these also exist in much thinner examples, more resebling Kraak wares.
Now of course i did not live in 1600, but this is my best guestimate based on the many pieces from this period we have.
It was a good buy. Love those type plates.
Best wishes
Freek
Thank you, Freek. It was my lucky day when I won that auction!
Hope you have a happy 2021
-Steve
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