BidAmount Asian Art News

Auctions Of Chinese and Asian Art, Auction Results News

  • Home
  • Weekly News Letter Page
  • The Forum
  • YouTube
  • plcombs Asian Art
    • Visit plcombs-Chinese-Asian Art
    • About, plcombs Chinese-Asian Art Antique Dealer | Massachusetts
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • A Few Site Pages
  • Recomended Books
  • Blog
  • Sign Up-Global Member Pages
  • Sign In-Global Member Pages
You are here: Home / The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.


Asian art booksBasic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum:  Talk about whatever you want.  You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic.  Maximum image file  size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube,  Vimeo etc.  

NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button. 

Forums
The FORUM List
Help Identify This
What is the age of ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

What is the age of these carved teeth?

 
Page 2 / 2 Prev
    Last Post
  RSS

avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
12/09/2020 11:23 pm  

Given the size and shape I would guess these are sperm whale teeth. I see a lot of this material here locally since the inuit people of Greenland have used it for carving tupilaqs originally to sell to tourists but these have now become sought after collectors items. Unfortunately their trade is now restricted as with most ivory. The inuit people are still allowed to harvest walrus ivory to sell so we can still get that material here. The price of this material which is supposed to be the best quality of ivory since it's not prone to cracking usually follow the price of silver.


   
Julia, Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
13/09/2020 1:06 am  

Very interesting discussion. Has anyone ever seen examples with the two tiered almost lotus style bases before?

Mark 

 


   
Julia, Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
Topic starter 13/09/2020 1:54 am  

Hi, Mark.  I will ask Peter.  The first of the areas you identified is a break that has been glued back together.   The other two are breaks in the ivory.  Because these were carved so 3-dimensionally, there are lots of isolated, free-standing bridges, and several of them display cracks.  Luckily, most are still attached on each side, so although they are cracked, nothing fell off.   


   
Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
Topic starter 13/09/2020 2:02 am  

Hi, Avatar.   My first though was whale teeth as well,  but I have a sperm whale tooth, and it has a nearly round (only slightly oval) cross section, so I discounted that.  But when I look online, I see lots of sperm whale teeth that are flattened just like these.  I think you are right!  

The Japanese carved lots of whale teeth.  I wonder if these could be Japanese copies of the Chinese motif?


   
Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
Topic starter 18/09/2020 12:25 am  

Hi All,

I thought you deserved a follow up on this. I sat down this evening with my friend the SEM operator, and this is what we saw.  First, we looked at the broken area (Photo 1).   It was not featureless, as it would be if it were plastic, but instead showed a strong fibrous texture.  When we analyzed the material using the Energy-dispersive X-ray spectrometer (EDS), it showed the material to consist of Calcium, Phosphorous, Oxygen, and Carbon.  As dental enamel consists largely of hydroxyapatite (Ca5(PO4)3(OH)), plus some organic matter, this is exactly consistent with what is expected for a tooth.  then we looked at the smooth surface adjacent to the break (photo 2).  This shows clear marks of having been carved and polished; it is not molded plastic.  

Next, we went down to the base of the tooth below on of the bats (see the attached color photograph).  I was interested in seeing what the brown material along the lower edge of the tooth was.  I thought it was cementum, a mixture of enamel and organic material that occurs around the base of the tooth, holding it into the socket.  This is shown in Photo 3, which as a SEM photo of the area indicated by a black arrow in the color photo.   It is hard to interpret, but what you are looking at is the smooth enamel edge of the tooth, with the brown cementum showing as a rough area below it.  Because the cementum is softer, it displays chatter marks from the carving process.  The EDS spectrum for the cementum is also attached.  It is quite similar to the enamel EDS map, but has a little more carbon (organic matter), indicated by the relatively higher carbon peak,  and slightly higher concentrations of minor components like iron and sulfur.  

Finally, there is a SEM photo of some part of the face or wing of the bat (photo 4)--it is hard to tell what it is, with a 1 mm field of view.  But the important part is that is clearly shows that the bat was carved, not molded.  Looking at these teeth on the SEM, we saw internal texture, and no bubbles anywhere.  Lots of evidence of carving.  These are definitely carved teeth, not molded plastic.  

As Avatar suggested above, I think these are sperm whale teeth.  Also attached is the bottom view of a sperm whale tooth that I found on the internet.  the cross section is exactly the same as my carved teeth.   

The still leaves the original question!  What age are they, and what is the source?  Are these Chinese (no record of carving whale teeth), or possibly Japanese (known to carve whale teeth)?  The motif is old, maybe 17th century(?), but could these be more modern teeth copying the older style?  Ah, research!

Charles

 

 


   
Sharon P, Ming1449, Julia and 3 people reacted
ReplyQuote
 Brettm
(@brettm)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1197
18/09/2020 12:35 am  

Hi Charles,

That's good news. Send pic's to Peter he may be able to provided the missing answers.

Michael

 


   
Sharon P reacted
ReplyQuote
Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
18/09/2020 12:44 am  

Hi Charles,

Sounds very promising. As Michael has suggested definitely send pictures to Peter for his opinion. 

Mark 


   
Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7258
18/09/2020 2:12 am  

Fascinating!

Charles, thank you so much for sharing that with us.

 


   
Sharon P and Brettm reacted
ReplyQuote
avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
18/09/2020 3:14 am  

Yes, fascinating! So much trouble for a pair of carved ivory. But yes, it's interesting with the Chinese motive but I would guess that they are likely carved by Chinese settlers in an area where this material was brought in by whalers, most likely America since this is your location. I also wondered if they could be Japanese but I don't think so. But who knows? By coincidence I follow a lot of Japanese sales and there are lots of restricted materials available like sperm whale tooth, elephant ivory and tortoise shell. Sometimes I'm tempted to buy some but if they find it in the customs they'll confiscate it ...


   
ReplyQuote
Malka Art
 Malka Art
(@adrian)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 538
Malka Art - Facebook Malka Art - X.com
18/09/2020 3:25 am  

Hi Charles,

Can you upload some good closeups of the carvings, pleases? Although nicely done I suspect they are machine carved, which would imply fairly recent made. If hand traditional tools were used then chances for them being older are higher. I was inspecting the pictures and I’ve noticed certain elements that are quite promising and some that don’t appear to me as done some time ago.

Fingers crossed it’s all good and old.

kind regards,

Adrian

Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]


   
ReplyQuote
Malka Art
 Malka Art
(@adrian)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 538
Malka Art - Facebook Malka Art - X.com
18/09/2020 5:50 am  

Hello again,

I’ve checked the pictures again and to me they appear as very recent. Few things worth mentioning: artificially aged with some strong tint, without any signs of natural patina, absolute lack of harmony in composition - as a whole it’s chaotic, carvings itself done in a rush and I don’t think only hand tools were used, there are a lot of those nasty scratches left, they didn’t even bother to polish and buff it properly, but good and genuine buffing leaves no rows for tinting. In general I am struggling to see any features of genuine old work here. I am seriously hoping to be wrong and I wish you can obtain a positive opinion.

Kind regards,

Adrian

Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]


   
ReplyQuote
 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
Topic starter 19/09/2020 12:16 am  

Hi Adrian,

 

Here are the close-up photos you requested.  I actually like the carving and think it is fairly detailed (in these photos, the bat heads are only 5 mm across), but have to agree with you that the patina is a bit lacking in terms of depth and complexity.  But maybe that is because these are whale teeth and not elephant ivory--the enamel seems pretty dense.   In the closeups, it is clear that the brown tinting is mostly in the fibrous texture of the enamel itself, and you can see the banding in the enamel better--layering that parallels the outer surface of the tooth, and that seems to pick up the tinting better or worse in individual layers.  

I guess, right now, I am leaning towards these being 20th century, and either a homage to older styles or intended to fool.  We will see what Peter says.  Peter had opined that these were composite, but that was before I sent him the SEM data.  I haven't heard back from him yet after sending him that.  

 

Charles


   
ReplyQuote
Page 2 / 2 Prev
Forum Jump:
  Previous Topic
Next Topic  

Notice

Weekly Video’s on You Tube, Subscribe Today!

Bidamount on Youtube asian Art news

Hundreds of Online Auction Catalogs

Chinese Art Auction Catalogs

Blog Archive

Global Auction “member pages”, get them all in just one place.

chinese porcelain auctions

Join our weekly newsletter for current eBay Asian Art Listings

Newsletter Sign Up
For Email Newsletters you can trust.

Get Our Thoughts On Any Auction Listing Anywhere, BEFORE You Bid

asian art auction

Click to View the News Letter Page

Asian Art News

Recent Posts

  • Pierre Le-Tan Auction Chinese, Japanese and Islamic Art Paris
  • Investing in Chinese Art Versus Collecting Chinese Art
  • Later Chinese Bronzes of the Song to Qing Dynasty
  • Asia Week In New York City September 2020 The Auctions
  • Japanese and Chinese Art Collection of Brian Page At Ma San Auctioneers
  • Bidit Auctions Fakes of Chinese Art In Marietta Georgia | Opinion
Click Here
Share:
  Forum Statistics
8 Forums
12.3 K Topics
91.4 K Posts
58 Online
7,694 Members

Latest Post: Japanese bowl Our newest member: Amanda Parsons Recent Posts Unread Posts Tags

Forum Icons: Forum contains no unread posts Forum contains unread posts

Topic Icons: Not Replied Replied Active Hot Sticky Unapproved Solved Private Closed

Powered by wpForo  Powered by wpForo version 2.4.5

Super Globals

Options and Features



Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"

If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.

Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.

Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects.  As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.

Thank you,

Peter Combs


Topics and categories on  The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube.  Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings. 

Ancient Chinese Art - Ancient History Encyclopedia

The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.

Arts of Asia | The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston

The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...

Chinese Art: Characteristics, History - Art Encyclopedia

Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.

China Online Museum - Chinese Art Galleries: Home

China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.

Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art | Christie's

Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...

Fine Chinese Paintings | Christie's

Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...

Asian Art Week | New York | September 2019 | Christie's

Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.

Chinese Art from The Art Institute of Chicago | Christie's

Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...

Chinese Art in Hong Kong: A Brief ... - Christie's Education

Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.

The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art ...

The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.

Chinese Art | Sotheby's

The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...

Chinese Art Auctions - Chinese Paintings ... - Sothebys.com

Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.

Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art

Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Paintings and Works of Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.

Bonhams : Asian Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.

Bonhams | Asian Art in London

Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map

Bonhams : Asian Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.

Bidamount is a member of the eBay partner network, eBay is a registered trademark of eBay Inc. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the Bidamount User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Bidamount, 185 Main Street Suite B., Gloucester, Ma. all content © 2006–2025

proudly powered by WordPress | web design by smallfish-design

‹›×

    ‹›×