@greeno107 Thank you for the interesting thread, which I am enjoying following. I am still stumped by it having had a spout but no handle, (wine jar?), and it has similarities and differences to all the types members have suggested. Just looking at the examples, it looks more like the open two handled incense burner to me, but Brian's idea about the jun glaze being used as a repair material in the one photo shot seems logical, as it seems to flow into a loss. You found a good mystery, did you find others at the sale?

@sharonp This jar/jug is a real puzzle.

I'm not aware that glaze was used as a means to repair damage, but the glaze appears on the body, too, where there is no damage.  From what I have pieced together, celadon and jun glaze is very similar.  In fact, there are green jun wares (they're rare).  However, the overall glaze does not share much simiilarity with the opaque and rather thick jun glaze, except in the area on the cover, and a few spots throughtout the body.

I'm making a big stretch to try and provide an explination, and without a comparative I'm probably wrong, but at the end of the Yuan/start of the Ming, celadon ware's popularity started to slow down... blue and white wares became dominant.  I think it might be possible that kilns were using up the glaze that they had left, before switching to blue and white production.  So, maybe a kiln had a little jun glaze left over, and splashed the longquan glaze as an artistic effect?  Crazy, right?

The estate sale was at a nice waterfront property, probably in the $800k- $1million price point.  The location of the sale is one that I have first hand knowledge that many well known collectors live (or have lived). In fact, there is a very famous collection (or what remains of it) that I've been waiting on for a few years, now.

I bought most of the Asian items - 18th c. arita/kakiemon bowl, Pr. coral ground jars w/ Qianlong marks (Republic period), Kangxi bisquit fanghu vase w/ green sancai glaze, and Kangxi guanyin biscuit figure with sancai glaze.

I did not buy a small 18th c. Dehua boy w/ flute on water buffalo figure (too small for my taste), a green monochrome vase with ruyi handles that was lamped ($500)... labled as 18th c., but likely 19th c, and a pair of small Qianlong period export covered bowls with very beautiful animal form handles - too expensive for my taste (the old label had a price of $10,500 and looked to be from around 1980, and the seller was asking $2,500).

The house also had a very large collection of sterling silver and a good selection of period furniture.

I think I've reached my limit on what I can research - If you have any additional info, please post.

I'm of the opinion that the jar is late Yuan to early Ming.  

The design contains elements that are strongly Yuan, such as the overall form (guan shaped jar), the lappets, and the extremely wide/deep foot rim, and other characteristics that reflect more Ming.

These photos are comparisons with known Yuan pieces:

The central design of the dragon over water design is also known in the Yuan, but rocks are absent, so perhaps the appearance of rocks occurs in the Ming.

Also, the paste does seem to match up well with Yuan jun wares and Ming longquan wares, which apparently had low iron.

Take a look at this chip on the inside of the cover... this looks like recent damage.

The paste is WHITE and a bit granular/chaulky.  I don't think this is earthenware, but I'm not certain.

The celadon glaze does seem to share some characteristics of the dripping/thinning application of Yuan (and earlier) Yaozhao wares, and as William pointed out, in the Ming, there are bluish green glazed earthenware that also share that manner of application.

The large finial and spout remains a complete mystery, and possibley suggests a completely different line of origin (perhaps Japanese or South East Asian).

So, I'm out of ideas.  Help.

@ming1449 Hey Stuart!  I'm not sure how I missed your post.  Thank you so much.  The Japanese esthetic certainly is prevalent in the design.

Do you have any thoughts on why there is an application of the 'jun' blue to the jar?  Any thoughts on the function of the jar with such a small spout located very low on the body?

Kindly,

Tim

@ming1449  Stuart..

I haven't considered older periods, but looking at this blue splashed jar from the Tang dynasty, the form and cover (with smaller finial) sure has some similarities.  But, the paste used in my jar is not Tang like (I don't think).

You don't think it could be older than Yuan, do you?

@greeno107 

Hey Tim,

Awesome jar!

It is Japanese and Seto ware, from the late Edo period, I'd say anywhere from the mid 18th to first few decades of the 19th centuries.  That Jun effect you see is often seen on other Seto wares and Oribe type wares too.

Here is an example from the Aichi Prefecture museum.  Ill include the link below.

Cheers,

Jeremy

https://www.pref.aichi.jp/touji/collection/08/collection/08.html

@jbeer2121 

Bravo!  It looks like you hare cracked the mystery.  

I wanted to add that while these green glazed pieces are somewhat common, I don't recall seeing a jar with its lid for sale.... only in museums.

You can plug this into google and perhaps track down more info, but likely you will only find jardinieres and smaller pieces.  ( るすゆう 瀬戸 ) or ( 呂宋 瀬戸 )

Here is a preview for a Seto exhibition and in the background you can see another, or perhaps it is the same one...

http://seto-cul.jp/information/index.php?s=1327903003

@william 

Thanks!  It was one of those " I know I have seen one of these before.... but where???" moments.  Glad I could think of it.

@jbeer2121 Wow!  Nice find, Jeremy, thank you!

A rather nice looking water jug used for washing hands... very neat!

This is a great example of how how cultures borrow from each other, that they can appear quite ancient.  And, conversely, how ancient pieces can retain their youthfulness, and appear so much like more recent versions.

The finial had broken off the lid some time ago, but appears to have been re-attached rather recently with a glue gun (and poorly I might add). 

And so, thank you again, since I'm using your 'cooking' technique - came right apart, and with some minor scraping, I'm down to the original porcelain and I'm re-gluing with water-soluable glue.

I'm leaving the other condition issues be, including the lacquer/wax plug that is in the spout.

Looks like I can 'wash my hands' of this mystery.

@jbeer2121 

As with William and Tim, a great comparison and an excellent example of how later Japanese kilns/potters were inspired by and based upon there pieces on earlier Chinese motifs/forms and glaze types ... 

Stuart 

@jbeer2121 Yes, thank you Jeremy, most excellent sleuthing. That was a fun thread.

@ming1449 @greeno107

Stuart, Tim,

It is interesting to see you both mention the mimicking of the Chinese wares of older eras.... I thought I'd share my thoughts on the basis of this particular green glaze in Seto.

While researching that Seto flask I posted a while back I came to realize that during the late Edo period the kilns were producing wares as an homage to the earlier " Master" wares, or historically important eras.  The drippy ash glazes are a good example, such as my flask which has a Korean form and very much resembles Kamakura Period Seto flasks( I must admit, having shown it to a number of specialists and curators and I don't think I will ever know if it is 12-13th century or 18th/19th), and the methods used were so good they are nearly impossible to tell apart.  It seems it was always considered that this green glazed Seto from the late Edo period is copying the Nara green glazed wares (I'll post an example from one of my books), which for a long time were thought to be copying Tang copper and lead green glazed wares.  The funny thing about this is that the Nara and Tang periods overlap so very closely, and the Tang globular jars as Tim posted above, clearly also show this squat form.... A thought that I've been tumbling around in my head is why most early early Japanese( I mean like 1500 BC) jars are also squat and globular, long before the Chinese were styling theirs like that, and it has continued to this day especially in tea wares, like Chaire ( tea caddies), so is this a Japanese form, and a Chinese glaze, or were there cultural overlaps, even 3000 years ago or more....  a fun puzzle.

It is just another one of those, which came first the Chicken or the egg?

Cheers,

Jeremy

Sorry these are so dark...

@jbeer2121 thanks for doing that.  I was following along.

@rahawkins

Its a wild ride isn't it....digging into the the dusty corners of one's brain to find that thing you swear you recall seeing.... haha.

Jeremy