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Here are two snuff bottles from my large collection of cheap snuff bottles! I purchased these at least 20 years ago online, and always considered them to be fake--didn't care, I was just filling up a display case, and they were pretty and cheap. Is it possible they have some age?
The first one has a freely rotating central piece, and a mark I could not translate. Spoon looks new and stained to look old to me.
The second one looks better to me...
Thanks,
Charles
I think they are both 19th c. The 2nd snuff that looks like an egg with a loose scrolling lotus type design is okay, but that revolving snuff is wonderful!
The mark is Tong XXX Tang Zhi... that bottom right character is not in Gerald Davison's book of marks.
Not a cheap bottle these days.
The second mark is Jade, I think. I imagine it was easier to find late 19th c pieces at a low price when you bought these. I am also inclined to agree with Tim on the date. If that is correct, I guess these are worth a fair bit more now, especially the first one.
Thanks, Greeno and Julia!
I looked into my records. I purchased them both in 2006. The first for about $20, but it was from a Chinese dealer, and the shipping raised it to nearly $50. The second was from a U.S. seller, and it was $25, including postage.
I am wondering now about some of the others I purchased from Chinese dealers at the same time. I was convinced they were all modern copies, but now I wonder. Let me bug you about another two...
What about these? The big one is 6.5" tall. Both are nicely carved and inside-painted. But the lack of polishing in the harder-to-reach areas suggests lower quality. The overly large size also seems like a red flag to me...
Thanks,
Charles
Was the Chinese dealer shipping from China? Nowadays that is a bad sign for authenticity. I don't know if it was then, but I imagine it was and am now thinking you may have been correct. They produce some pretty good copies, had I known where they came from, I would have voiced doubts earlier.
I think you really need Giovanni's opinion. If he sees the title I am sure he will share his expertise. However, if these all came from China, they probably are copies.
Dear Charles,
although in principle I do not like those rotating bottles (because they are more recalling toys than bottles), I must say that your one is the best bottle of this type that I have seen. Worth to keep.
The other b&w one is more modern and of lesser quality.
The two glass inside painted ones too are of the type that I do not like, but it must be said that the painting is of very fine quality. I would keep the smaller one, the other one is indeed too big as you said.
Regards,
Giovanni
Thanks, Giovanni and Julia!
It is good to know that I didn't buy junk! What I love about snuff bottles is that they are often quite beautiful, even if they don't have much age. The skill required to make and decorate them has to be worth a few bucks!
I have dozens of poorer quality snuff bottles, but I won't bother you with those. But here are a final two. I paid a few dollars apiece for these in the early 2000's, but with shipping from China, they came to $40-50 each. They were advertised as being 1900-1940, and after the last few, maybe they are!
They are both enameled copper bottles about 3" high. The first has dragons on each side. The dragons are really well painted and have scales of a style I associate with around 1900--but the gaudy pinkish red enamel, and the fact that the copper was not polished after firing, makes me think this is modern. The second is a blue and white bottle, with nicely painted scenes on each side. They both bear Qianlong marks.
Any thoughts? Are these modern, or are they really Republic era? It is hard to believe that such pretty work can be done, even in China, for what they sold them for...
Thanks,
Charles
Dear Charles,
it is matter of understanding what is “modern”, that is not the same to anyone.
I myself consider modern everything made after the Republic period. But that is me, many of us have a different view.
What I mean is that to myself it doesn’t make difference if an item is 1950 or 1990, because in my opinion everything made in those years has been mainly meant for the tourist market, hence they are not objects made for use.
I know, it is a gross classification, items intended for the sole function of being displayed has been made during any period, but to me they are of a different class than those of the years corresponding to the increasing of mass tourism.
Then, to me your bottles are modern. I agree that the decoration is finer than the average ones, but just look at the foot and the mouth: if you take a piece of copper and let it outside exposed to weather for 30 years, it will simply turn dark in color because of the natural oxide. Will it make such encrustation that you see on your bottles, which has been stored in house? No. It means that the bottles have been treated with acid, or who knows what, to make them appearing old.
I don’t like that; I would not buy a bottle with such encrustation regardless the quality.
But, again, that is me.
Regards,
Giovanni
Thanks, Giovanni. Very good points. I agree completely. I thought the black on the copper was from the firing and not from acid treatment, but the fact that is was left on the bottles indicates to me that they were never intended to be anything but tourist pieces. I was not very discerning 20 years ago.
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