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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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Transition blue and white vase - age

 
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 Lysander
(@lysander)
Reputable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 175
Topic starter 13/10/2022 6:17 am  

Hello, what do you think about age of this vase? Height - about 20 cm. I don't have better pictures.

Many thanks in advance! Lysander

A1 — kopia
A2 — kopia

 


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7069
13/10/2022 10:29 am  

You have to be very careful with transitional wares. Very popular and expensive atm. 

Hence many copies. Some are exceptional. 

I believe that this is a copy. 

Mark 


   
AL Boo, Greeno107, Sharon P and 4 people reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
13/10/2022 1:07 pm  

I agree with Mark, it doesn't look quite right, and the fakes are getting quite good and plentiful, especially with the current auction demand.

Jeremy


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
13/10/2022 8:53 pm  

Seems the addition of fake firing flaws has now become a popular technique of modern forgers, but the rendering is uninspiring.  Even if genuine, I would advise against buying it.


   
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 DannD
(@fuantiques)
Estimable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 87
13/10/2022 9:39 pm  

It's a strange shape, not used to this shape as a typical Transitional shape but I could be wrong. I feel as though its a version of THIS VASE on ebay. It is not an exact match but it's definitely the form. I could not find any transitional pieces in this jar-vase/meiping-like form, maybe someone else can throw some examples in. The genuine form of these jar-vases is more like THIS, or THIS, or THIS. I dont know if these examples forms actually have a name but they reminds me of an earlier version of Wax-gourd (灯笼瓶) or Lantern vases (冬瓜瓶). However, who knows - things were pretty screwy at the kilns during the Ming-Qing transition so someone with more knowledge in this area could probably give you a better definitive. 👍 


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
16/10/2022 10:41 am  
6300EA64 2CE4 4A42 A5B3 07B93D242742

@lysander 

Hi Lysander - 

Attached examples for comparison … 

These slender ovoid shape vases were one of the new forms introduced in the private kilns during Chongzhen, 1628-44, continuing into Shunzhi but is then  discard in Kangxi, 1662-1722 … 

Decorated mostly in blue and white, the motifs usually seen are figural amongst landscape scenes, although flowers/fruit and the ‘bogu’, antiquities are also known. Pieces decorated in enamels are also known, last image, but surviving examples of these are much rarer. Overall heights range from 17-20 cm … 

More images of the pieces are required before anything else could be said, but concur with Mark @imperialfinegems - one has to tread very carefully with such mid 17thC pieces presently …

Stuart 

8BA118EE 5704 49DA B3B0 FFB663088890
C8B195E7 5629 4617 8ACE B0CB9522E9CB
B2EDA9A4 CD7A 4085 9652 63C71420A1DE

   
AL Boo, Sharon P, William Huvar and 4 people reacted
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 DannD
(@fuantiques)
Estimable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 87
16/10/2022 6:18 pm  

@ming1449 Ah, I knew someone would find a matching form! The 1st pic is definitely the closest. However the original posters example is more flared at the base and a longer neck than your example. Would this point matter? I only ask because I am wondering if there was an exact form they copied over and over or if variations to the form would be permissible practice and expected. The last 2 photos are the only type of example I could find - the more ovoid formed. Nice to see these examples/form are all dated Ming-Chongzhen 👍 

D.


   
Sharon P reacted
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
17/10/2022 10:33 am  

@fuantiques 

Hi Dan - 

You may find the attached descriptions and images of some help …

Yes, the private kilns produced this vessel form in several variants, from slender bodied to much broader examples … 

Most are decorated in blue and white, but enamelled examples are also known. The last images illustrates an example with blue and white and enamelled decoration, but such pieces are very rare …

Stuart 

3AA655D4 A0C5 4B31 A8ED 73358E35AB70
13A5DD40 5607 44C2 AEBC 063AF6EE7A6A
1A318C13 8F79 4F0E 8748 2A2E8B95BB08
09EB5C34 E3AF 4247 A98E EC1DDAC92026
1B962B05 0386 437F 980F E517C8953FBE

   
Sharon P, DannD, William Huvar and 1 people reacted
ReplyQuote
 DannD
(@fuantiques)
Estimable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 87
19/10/2022 12:55 pm  

@ming1449 Stuart - wow what a collection of examples, thanks for sharing this. I really love the last piece with the painterly underglaze & enamel landscape scene. This was highly interesting thread and I have learned a lot as I haven't seen anything but B&W so it's nice to learn the variety out there of this form. I can see why this is a highly collected genre! 👍


   
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