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@imperialfinegems Mark I believe you are correct and so is Birgit. It does look to be Tongzhi mark. I have found this mark on another piece in water silk dragon dated porcelain. Even though you can’t see much of the mark enough is there. The “China” I believe to be hand written. They had a hard time writing it as there are extra lines in the “H” this make me think this was done to satisfy 1890 law but it didnt make it out of the country before the 1914 change to the law so the “made in” Label was added with inventory number. This is the reason I thought this would be fun case. The law to export to America helped date this stand.
Hi Brian,
Thank you for the clarification on the China Mark. It was difficult to decipher. But now I can see it.
Something I almost forget about was the point that Birgit posted. Almost all stamped tongzhi marks are guangxu period. So it's either tongzhi or more probably early guangxu period.
Thank you my friend for a great thread.
Mark
Reading all the input, I wonder if this stand was intended to be lamped buy the importer and maybe only one of many imported in to the US, thus the rubber china stamp and paper ‘made in’ . if I recall Peter often mentioning a trend by decorators to lamp Chinese vases and the like in the 20’s?
1st time I see porcelain which was dated to 19th century when it has a paper label "made in China"...
@ronm I don’t think the importer would drill the bottom in such a crude manner this was drilled probably buy the owner during the 1920 lamp shortage.
Here the written “China” the artist was clearly having issue with it.
@lotusblack Brian, my question would be - how the artist can draw such a nice pattern, and then how possibly artist can fail when writing "china" on a bottom?
My question is without any sort of sarcasm.
P.S. and red mark "china" on the bottom..Why there is an additional paper label which states "made in china" - doesn't make any sense unless a paper label was stuck on a bottom when porcelain was imported from China? But on another hand - the paper label clearly chinese style label..Very odd.
I think the forum has trained us to be suspicious of chipped drilling, paper labels in general, also darkened rims, which might clean up nicely. It has been an enjoyable thread. Sharon
@lucky asking a Chinese writer to write in English would be like asking an American writer to write in Chinese. As for the paper label our laws required a “made in” label in 1914 so any export from China made before 1914 would have required a modification these hat stands were produced in large quantities in blanks. The over glazed enamels were added at later times by private studios. There was a lamp shortage in 1920 Montgomery wards could not meet the demand so they sold lamp kits. Chinese understood this shortage and sent old stock to America as demand was high for lamps due to the electrical boom. In the early 1890 iron read stamps had not been produced “China” mark so the China marks were hand written paper labels are used on old stock for short time to meet requirements so most of the porcelain produced during 1890 and 1914 that had a “China” mark would have had to have a gum label this was soon replaced by wax stamp “made in China”
@lotusblack so if it's Tongzhi it means this item was sitting around for some 30 years till the Chinese decided to export the item?
I think it’s Guangxu but could be Tongzhi or Tongzhi blank. If you have seen the documentary of the kilns used in China they were huge warehouse size kilns that could produce 100000 pieces in a firing so is it possible to have overstock you bet.
@lotusblack I really doubt that. I doubt that overstock existed at all in China when it comes to porcelain, I might by mistaken but I think that every single piece was assigned for export as soon as possible.
Stock sitting around for a 30 years and stretching into let's say Guangxu reign? Doesn't sound to me right.
It is way too long time for me to consider overstock option at all in this case.
Very interesting & nice thread - many answers "are there" regarding dating, but we have to find correct approach to mentioned answers 🙂
Brian, let me to point this out>>I am not against possible age of your very nice porcelain in anyway, I am just trying to follow or to build logic pattern based on other members answers, thoughts and evidence which we have on hand when dating this hat stand (personally I love it), I am just trying to hold very constructive discussion here.
At this point I think we can skip Tongzhi reign, as it doesn't fit here at all- 30 years stock sitting and waiting to be exported and even porcelain stretching from one emperors reign to another's..I think such possibility big no no - it doesn't any make any sense to me personally.
What's left for us to consider>>it's Guangxu or early republic, as there is China mark and Made in China mark on a bottom on top of that, as you did mentioned>> that China was used from 1890 and paper label from 1914.
As bottom carries "China" mark, this is mean, that porcelain was ready to be exported by still "old" export/import law & rules - and added paper label "made in china" - kind of confirms that law was changing at that point, in my eyes it possibly can be 1914 and onward..But it doesn't means that porcelain was made in 1914.
Questions is, for how long possibly porcelain can sit around before it was exported from china? If we will be able to answer this question, you will have very accurate dating on your porcelain.
Audrius
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