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Hi to all,
this is one of my mystery pieces. As there are so many Qing experts here, maybe you can help me with dating. I won this on Ebay some years ago from a Swedish seller. The seller had described it as a Jiaqing vase. I think it's rather a tea caddy. Or is it too large for a tea caddy with 20 cm/7,9 inch? Is Jiaqing correct or does the bald-headed bird indicate a later date? The item is quite heavy and sturdy and therefore undamaged. It has an uneven surface that feels oily to the touch, a bit like Qianlong items.
Birgit
Hi Birgit -
These export pieces are not really my field or indeed taste - and I'am sure you have already researched other examples/pieces - but I came across the attached images of a rather similar piece described as ‘19th C’, H. 20 cm, W. 17 cm, offered for sale via auction in January 2019, estimate was £250-350.
I would add a note of caution in that the on-line ‘auction house’ who offered this piece is well know for offering many rather ‘dubious’ objects ...
I will defer to others on the Forum with much more knowledge in this subject ...
Hope these are of some help for comparison ...
Stuart
There is a bit of clash between the form - C18th export tea caddy , and the decoration which looks more chinese taste and late C19th.
Even then the bats look typical of chinese drawing style, but the butterflies are not very typical, imo.
So I would think this is a later copy, whether from the late C19th, or late C20th, I can't tell, but Stuart's posting of a very similar one may suggest they are both quite recent ?
tam
They are quite similar. I think Birgit's is more well-painted, it also doesn't have a darkened unglazed area where the lid goes. But I guess that means nothing, tea might stain and darkened areas be good?
If one were genuine I would say Birgit's, but equally they both may be fine, or both fake. I am not sure of the dating, the bird may be a factor but I was wondering about the size. Have you seen others from that period of this size? I was trying to find out and came across an interesting article and it made me wonder if the larger size of this caddy relates to a time when tea became less expensive ie later 19th c? Larger items would have been less cost-effective to ship, I assume, unless there was a demand for them.
Also, might both of these have been decorated in Holland on Chinese blanks? It might explain the style.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/antique-tea-caddies/
Hi all, thanks for your help.
An astonishing find, Stuart. I'd say it's from the same manufacture, same form, identical painting, only the bird sitting on the side not in the middle.
Tam, you're right, the baroque form and the 19th century painting don't go together. I once had a Guangxu vase with exactly that type of bald-headed bird on it.
Julia, thanks for the interesting article about tea caddies. As a heavy tea trinker I might buy that book, it sounds fun. I rembember having read too that earlier tea caddies were small because tea was so expensive.
All that together seems to indicate a later 19th century manufacture. What made me doubt until now was the oily glaze and the uneven surface. I took two additional pictures to show it better. But maybe it was just made that way and not all Guangxu items have that flat hard surface (that often reminds me of sanitary ware compared to the 18th century).
Birgit
Interesting thread thanks to all posters ... Always something to learn
Michael
Hi Birgit and all -
The bird/branch design on both pieces is copying a Imperial 18th C motif, which itself draws inspiration from a known early 15th composition, usually seen on large dishes and one very rare Baoyue ping - ‘moon vase’ in the Percival David Coll, British Museum.
Attach some 18th C examples for comparison:-
The moon vase with two birds on both sides, and the meiping base multiple birds are both Yongzheng m/p and in the Gugong, Beijing. The moon vase with single bird, also YZ m/p, is in the NPM Taipei.
Stuart
Thanks Stuart, beautiful examples. I always connected the "bald-headed" bird with late 19th century, but it was obviously used earlier.
Birgit
Hi Birgit and all -
Just for everyones reference, attached image of three Yongle period pieces with bird/branch designs - the yuhuchun ping, H. 33.5 cm and the baoyue ping, H. 30. 5 cm both Percival David Coll, British Museum and the meiping, H. 33.2 cm, British Museum Coll ...
Stuart
This post is more than year old, so unfortunately all the pictures and most of the links have dissappeared. Though I was half convinced it was Guangxu, the large tea caddy kept on puzzling me. Similar ones popped up from time to time on Ebay and were always described as c. 1800. So I asked Peter about his opinion and (just in case someone is interested) here is what he said about it:
Based on the images provided, your Tea Caddy I believe was made around 1800 to 1820 as you were told when you bought it.
The tone of the cobalt, white paste foot hand-trimmed and drawing are all very consistent with examples made during the period suggested above. The style of painting is a continuation of work done on many export porcelains of the 18thC.
The later revival examples varied a bit and often bore Kangxi four character marks and the foot rims nearly always showed iron oxide residue/staining along the edges of the feet and where the glaze ends.
While I cannot handle your caddy, I suspect if you run your finger tips along the foot, you'll feel very fine white spots of grit, just tiny bits. You may also feel some on the underside of the base stuck in the glaze. The foot rims tend to be very white due to the superior grade of well levigated (cleaned) clay used in their making. As a result, Irion spots can be non-existent.
Age: 1800 to 1820
Value: $350 to $450.
Birgit
Hi Birgit,
A beautiful example you have there.
From my knowledge the issue with the foot rim grit/uneven was due to the opium wars (1839-1860)and the destruction of kilns etc. This issue was finally overcome during the guangxu period.
From your pictures one can visually see the grit/uneven foots rim.
Mark
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