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Stamp from excavations for attribution

 
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 13/01/2025 2:43 am  

The seal was brought from excavations on the border of China and Kazakhstan at the beginning of the 20th century. Size 6.5 cm.

578B80BA 75DB 4776 AA98 0FAA3E2A720B
238AB7A3 C10A 45D5 840F 60312500F44C
98F15A8B 632B 4097 8A6C BAFEE352C19D
4144B678 C368 4463 B9A1 0C3546A0BC60
A339F737 84E0 4CBB B626 F31449ED650E
ADCA102A 7B9B 405D 8643 3BB9B95C825A
E227D972 CCAF 493B B214 C99A8FB8DFC1
5CFBDA58 B1F8 494E A144 FDA4DC1B5CA9
3977400C 484C 480D BB13 79D44226DDC0
96CDFAEC EBED 4BC3 88B7 01C0A941C578
113EC5A6 5748 4677 9625 CB5D7793BB6D

   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4431
14/01/2025 11:59 pm  

Could you please take more pictures in natural sunlight? You included one but others would helpful, including nice closeups. 


   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 15/01/2025 1:06 am  

I'll try to take photos in the evening. So far I have managed to find out what is written on the side of the seal:西园翰墨少宗 (Xiyuan Calligraphy Master). I don’t know if they translated it correctly or not. Help. If the translation is correct, then this master was very famous and revered in the Qing Dynasty.
And I would like to know what material the seal is made of..

 


   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 15/01/2025 3:12 am  

@johnshoe

5BB46931 0138 44A4 AB1E C0BF2AB42BE5
8D7321B6 F207 4B76 9528 B74002DBCC80
20F2B5C8 48B7 4CDA 9185 BCC83BF81ACB

   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 15/01/2025 3:14 am  

@johnshoe

3D3BB3D4 96D6 41A6 8273 844F95C9847D

   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 15/01/2025 3:53 am  

Now they answered me from the Fersman Mineralogical Museum about the stone itself: it looks like very light jade, a type of actinolite mineral that has long been traditionally very popular in China.


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4431
15/01/2025 7:49 am  

@cherdak The seal looks intriguing and I think it is worthy of further examination. It will probably need to be handled in person to be sure about it. I still think you are going to need better pictures, preferably outside in the sunlight. Then submit it to Peter for his opinion then let us know what he says.

This post was modified 4 months ago by johnshoe

   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 15/01/2025 10:10 am  

@johnshoe 

Thank you. First of all, one of these days I’ll go to the mineralogical museum and get a report on the stone. Because I want to find out exactly what the seal is made of. Because there is still an assumption that this is an agalmatolite. And then we will decide what to do next. When I receive the conclusion on the stone, I will definitely tell you the outcome here on the forum.


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4431
15/01/2025 3:22 pm  

@cherdak Finding out the stone type is useful however an artistic assessment is more important in my view for authentication purposes.

This post was modified 4 months ago by johnshoe

   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 16/01/2025 3:00 am  

The inscriptions were deciphered for us:

Seal reads,
陳苑茂印  Seal of Chen Yuanmao - Surname and given name

Inscription on the side,
西園翰墨林 Xiyuan Han'molin - West Garden Brush and Ink Forest*
少宗 Shaozong - Name of carver

* Name of the garden created by Cao Zhi of Wei in the capital city of Ye. It was there that famous literati of the time, the so called Seven Sons of Jian'an gathered and composed poetry.

This inscription suggests that the owner of the seal may have been a kind of literati at some time in a much later undetermined age.

 

Let's move on..


   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 27/01/2025 4:49 am  

@johnshoe 

Hello everyone, as promised with the report.

We were at the mineralogical museum. We conducted a full study of the seal and gave a conclusion.

Lots of news...

CFE18C32 2428 470C 8A7B FB6BD5FDE29F
0B4E36FA 436E 4111 8CD6 F171F3BED5D2
2343D3CB BD2B 4ED2 9F90 5BBC02F8B681
DE659A72 B200 43F4 96FE A5B1AB3D4B43
540EA429 CEE7 477D BC66 1E8B62ECB634
A9601D9A 6D29 49F8 9964 50C72DA6DF47
EC54BD2D 8199 49F8 803F 3FB3B82BE776
CCCE008D 8A55 4F42 9995 76B19A965809
9AF96F65 8B40 4373 B46E 8C8735E9A685
96628187 A059 4B18 B62C BCFA4997719E
3861DBA8 BDDE 41B4 9CEF 9EAB92329ED7
EBD2AF89 A044 4AD5 BC40 567530D1551F
EF0DEFB4 BD4B 49E4 9BD6 C25BB836C9C6

They determined the stone from which the seal is made - it is agalmatolite.

We conducted a study of the red paint on the seal itself under a microscope and devices: we found out that it is natural cinnabar with mercury.

Then the person studied the hieroglyphs on the side of the seal under a microscope and a device: it turns out that they were covered with natural green paint based on malachite, the remains of this coating are visible under magnification. When you look at the hieroglyphs without magnification, this is not visible.

They were also interested in the craquelure (cracks) on the seal... they said that it looks like the seal once survived a fire.

So far, this is all we have managed to find out. We are attaching the photographs.

I did not say this before, but the seal was found by a relative, Vladimir Demyanovich Fomichev. A famous geologist, paleontologist and archaeologist.

Regarding the age, we were advised to contact the Sotheby’s auction house.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7221
27/01/2025 7:31 am  

How interesting! Thanks for the update.


   
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 Svetlas
(@cherdak)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 100
Topic starter 27/01/2025 8:36 am  

 

@julia 

Thank you. We hope to find out the age.. Since in the Ming Dynasty they made seals from agalmatolite and imperial seals too. Expressed an opinion about this period.. We will contact Sotheby's, but we don't know who exactly yet, there are a lot of experts there....

We also hope to find out the identity of the owner of the seal...maybe we will be surprised..


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7007
27/01/2025 8:39 am  

It's all very fascinating stuff. 

I would also contact Christies and Bonham's. 

Mark 


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4431
27/01/2025 10:45 pm  

@cherdak Freemans also has a respectable and knowledgeable Asian art department and they are great with communication. I would recommend sending an email to Ben Farina. [email protected].  Good luck with it! John


   
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