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Greeting! New to this forum - I'm a dealer/collector of mostly Japanese and Qing/Republic Chinese items. Could I ask for some help regarding identifying the age and proper description of this jug form vessel?
Background - I've been buying out the estate of a retired collector for about a year. Some pieces have gone to auction in NY, others privately sold, some Ebay, and some kept for my personal collection. So, the estate has a wide range of quality (Shipwreck minyao to mark & period), and pieces dating as far back as Tang, but mostly Qing to Republic - collector died in the 1980's and his partner stored everything since then.
The jug is about 9" tall, heavily potted. Very hard to photograph color accurately... my best description would be to say it is a pale blue, black & gold thread, with a pealescence (almost a pale blue flambe) throughout especially in areas where the glaze pooled.
Clay has a heavy iron content which has turned dark on the unglazed areas of the foot, but it appears it is also visible bleeding through the glaze.... I do not believe the black/brown color is some sort of wash to make it appear 'old'.
The photos I took are in natural light, but the unusual qualities of the glaze really plays tricks on my IPad camera, so there is variation in the exact color - sorry...did my best.
The wood stand is zitan with silver wire that I believe is 18th or earlier. The jug and stand might have been married, and may have no relationship to each other beyond the prior owner putting them together.
Is it worth getting TL tested?
Thanks for the Help!
Hi greeno,
Welcome to the forum!
On the issue of whether the stand is zitan my thoughts are that is example is not zitan but from the same family of rosewood.
I also believe your stand probably dates from late Qing to republic period. Carving with silver inlay were very popular during that period. I do not know or have seen zitan inlaid with silver etc.
I have attached a rosewood frame (partial) with silver inlay dating from 19th/20th Century.
Sorry, I can't help with your main enquiry in identifying your vessel.
There are some simple test in order to confirm said material.
Mark
Hello Imperial!
Since the stand was not the focus of my post, I didn't include better photos.
I'm fairly familiar with zitan having owned several zitan pieces over the years, including a table that I sold with Lark Mason Spring 2018 that brought a rather nice hammer price.
Here's a shot of the bottom that shows the grain - the weight and density of the wood is unmistakable. The stand appears to have been broken during the 19th - early 20th c as along with a crack on the bottom support, there is A triangle repair made with rosewood on the top.
However, I think the stand was made for a jade bowl since there is no central panel on the stand's top. But, it does fit the jug quite well.
Hi Greeno107,
That is a very interesting combo you have posted here. I agree the stand was made for something else as basically those 2 objects are not talking to me together. I love the stand, I am not an expert in oriental wood, but I love the silver inlay and too me it is absolutely matching style and appearance of silver inlay on bronze censers from 18th. And the stand itself looks that old to me as well.
I wonder what others will tell about the jug. I am not that confident with stoneware. I like your jug, the crackle looks good, and I just wonder about the shape - was it common earlier than 18/19th C?
I am sure somebody here will give you some clues. You could also try facebook groups for Chinese ceramics.
Best of luck with your jug.
Adrian
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]
Hello Adrian!
Nice to hear you appreciate the stand as I do. I, too, think it looks 18th c. Thank you!
I'm hoping eventually someone will comment on the vessel, but perhaps I need to clarify that it is porcelain, not stoneware. I realize now that in my post I mention that I believe the 'clay' has a high iron content which turned dark brown, and I may have given the impression that the jug is earthenware/ceramic. Definitely some sort of high fire porcelain.
As for the shape- no idea... not something I've seen in any period that I'm familiar with (Ming - Republic), but I've heard that Song Dynasty objects often had utilitarian forms. However, I have no real experience with Song objects and in my opinion the foot rim looks different than the Song vessels I've seen.
The color, too, is a mystery.
Fingers crossed.
Long way ahead of me and still a lot to learn. I was sure it was stoneware by looking at the base.
I really hope you'll manage to find out exactly what it is. Have you tried any other places, fb groups, has somebody gave you any hint, anything?
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]
I also feel there is no connection between stand and bottle - the bottle looks like a kitchen item or for wine, and to me it does not look Chinese , the shape is unusual and the form of the footrim and base is not very typical . The base and mouth seem to have very little wear so my guess would be south-east Asian or Korean and early C20th, but I have no direct basis of comparison.
tam
Hi Greeno107 - and welcome to this greet forum.
Monochromes are a specialised subject within themselves and are sometimes rather difficult to date. This is especially so with pieces covered with Guan or Ge type glazes.
Attached image of the exhibition catalogue on Ge type wares held at the Palace Museum, Beijing, in 2017. The exhibition continued objects dated from the Southern Song to early 20th century.
These types of glazes originated in the Song period, continued to be used into the Yuan and Ming - although pieces from this period are rather rarer - and were extremely popular throughout 18th/19th centuries, both on Imperial and private kiln objects.
There is no reference to the shape/form of your vessel in this, or any other publication, that I have seen on Chinese objects with these glaze types. I would concur with Tam’s comments, this is not Chinese, IMO.
Whether it is Japanese, Korean or South East Asian I can not say, copies are known to have been made from these, but tend to be 19/20th century ...
Stuart
I agree - nothing about the shape matches with any Chinese forms. However, the glaze is really complex and leads me to believe only the Japanese or Chinese could have developed it.
There are surface scratches, and the labels appear to have writing written with fountain pen ink, so 19th/early 20th c or older.
I was hoping the foot rim and porcelain would offer someone with greater expertise than I have as to its proper age & identification. This post is still new, so perhaps in time.
Second thought.... the shape is kind of like a mallet vase with a very mall neck & mouth, but looks more like a Japanese saki bottle (tokkuri) - check out the photo below. I think I'll have it TL tested just to be sure it's not a Song piece made for the Japanese market.
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