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I am looking at this dish on a Japanese auction. It appears to be a Song dynasty Qingbai/Ding-type dish, but I have my doubts. It is obviously not true Qingbai or Ding ware, but could conceivably be a folk-kiln imitation from the same period. That's what the seller suggests. It has a mounted copper rim.
Obviously, compared with true Song examples of similar dishes, the texture of this dish is not right. Nor is the all-over crazing. But the potting style looks okay. The copper rim would, of course, be a latter addition.
The seller has other pieces, most of which are genuine, with one or two obvious fakes. I don't think the seller realises that they are fakes.
I scour the Japanese market every day for antiques (mostly Chinese ceramics and teaware). I see the usual modern fakes from China, but also a lot of seemingly period Japanese imitations of Chinese ceramics. In the Edo and Meiji periods, the Japanese made often meticulous imitations of Chinese ceramics and other wares. This is a rather obscure subject without much study, but I can tell you I see these pieces all the time—pieces that are clearly antique and almost look authentically Chinese, but something is 'off' about them. A lot of these imitations were made in Kyoto, for instance, in the Edo and Meiji periods—copies of Chinese antiques, as well as imports of the day, made for wealthy collectors and tea practitioners.
My point being, could this be an authentic period piece, a modern Chinese fake or some kind of Japanese imitation?
Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
It is an interesting query but I can't say much other than I can see what you mean about the similarity with Ding wares but is that how the base would look? I can also see something Japanese about it.
Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about in this area will be able to help you.
Julia
Dear Professor Higgens, Pygmalion, (one of my favorites with Leslie Howard and Wendy Hiller), is that a faint mark to the right on the reverse. I will guess Japanese but I second Julia in her hope that someone has the answer. It is generally not a good sign if they are selling a great many fakes, "in Herefordshire hurricanes hardly hever happen," but hope springs eternal. Welcome. Sharon
@sharonp Thank you! Yes, I noticed that mark. Sadly, the photos are too poor to tell. It does look like something is faintly written there—perhaps with a marker (by an auctioneer or collector) or possibly incised under the glaze. Who knows.
When I compare the surface and foot rim with an authentic Song plate that I own, they look good and credible to me. But I don’t know how far the fakes have advanced in this field. For $12 you could get an appraisal from Peter Combs.
Birgit
An expert said about my plate that it was from the southern Ding type from the Northern Song dynasty. They were exported to Japan, Korea and SE Asia. My plate has a slightly creamy color and the metal rim was lost since it was found under water.
Birgit
I have never studied or known about Japanese copies of Song wares. All I know is that the Japanese have collected Song ceramics for centuries so it makes sense that they would copy them also. Attached are details of the metal rim areas of two Song pieces from my collection. The copper colored metal rim is most likely a later replacement while the wider, highly corroded rim on the other bowl is probably original. Hope this is some help in your research.
Suwa Sozan (1852-1922) was a famous Japanese imperial appointed artist who often did Song styled interpretations.
Followed by his adopted daughter Suwa Sozan II (1870-1970).
Still going strong today.
Mark
Suwa Sozan
Suwa Sozan II
I have just rediscovered these dishes (another Japanese auction) that I found a while back. The seller describes them as Goryeo celadon plates, which I believe is fairly accurate. Notice how similar they are to the dish in my original post. The potting style is not identical, but the glaze is pretty close.
For some reason, it didn't occur to me that my dish might be a Korean imitation of Song porcelain. But, of course, it's perfectly logical. Korea copied Song ceramics just as Japan did.
I look at Korean ceramics online all the time, but for some reason I didn't make that connection in relation to this dish.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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