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Hi All, I recently won this lot on ebay.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the classification and likely period?
Thanks, James
Hello James
It is a very interesting dish and I had seen it, but decided not to bid as it would seem unlikely to have been made during the Song or Yuan dynasty and I do not have enough experience to form an opinion as to how much later it is.
My reasons for believing that it is not an early piece is that it would appear to have a dark brown wash on the foot rim and this was not the case on Song or Yuan Ge or Guan dishes and bowls to my knowledge. Also, all of the Ge ware mallow form dishes in the Beijing Palace Museum appear to have spur marks and not a foot rim. The Ge ware bowls all have a much finer and narrow foot rim than on your dish. Perhaps Guan ware mallow form dishes may have had a foot rim rather than spur marks and you should be able to check this with pieces sold by the major auction houses.
Perhaps you could ask Peter for his opinion through his assistant service.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hello James
I have found a Song dynasty Guan mallow form brush washer which was sold by Christie's and this also has spur marks rather than a foot rim, the link to it being,
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6002505
I hope that this information is of help to you.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy,
Thank you this is a very helpful discussion. I also found this listing. The absence of spur marks does make me think that it could be later, perhaps Ming. I may query it with Peter, if I do I will let you know.
Thanks, James
@jamestreacher Welcome to the forum James! I would love to hear what Peter thinks.
The question is if the washer actually have a brown wash on the footring or not. On the early examples the brown color comes from oxidation of the clay which is most often gray as the eBay washer. But sometimes they only have a light oxidation on the surface which can be mistaken for a brown wash an and you can still see the gray clay beneath like on this Guan cong vase at British Museum.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_PDF-99
From the pictures in the eBay listing I can say for sure if the brown color comes from oxidation or is wash, unfortunately. But it sure looks like an interesting piece,
The Sir Percival David collection vase is an excellent example of how the body of the unglazed foot rim burnt a purplish brown shade, as it shows that this did not just occur at the surface, but also into the body as well. This can be seen when you zoom in on the last image where slithers have come off of the foot rim. Below is a screenshot of this image.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
it looks brand new to me ...however sold for the rigth price compare with Ebay item 255041575910 however it looks lovely
It doesn’t look old and it’s not Guan or Ge. Just a modern copy
I think the washer could possibly be an old one. Now I'll wait and see if James is going to reply to this thread before I say more.
It's a shame if James doesen't see this. The washer could possibly be quite valuable in my opinion.
Now I found an example of a Guan mallow petal washer that only have an unglazed foot-ring and no spur marks - stated to be of the Southern Song Dynasty 'Jiaotan Xiaguan' kiln and apparently residues in a private collection.
I found it on a Chinese site. It is always dangerous to rely on Chinese sites but I recognize many of the pieces shown as pieces in various Chinese museums so I think it is OK. Link:
https://zi-com.translate.goog/w/a/615daiX?_x_tr_sl=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=sc
Interesting that this lobed vase is described as Northern Song Dynasty Bianjing Official (Guan) in the article at the Chinese site while at Poly and Christie's it is described as 'Longquan Guanyao' and 'Longquan Guan-type'. (I need to give myself time to read the whole article.)
'
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