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Hello dear forum members,
Hope you are all doing well?
I was inactive for a while due to my work for NHS. I am slowly getting back in the game with my antiques and I've already did few fairs here in UK, although I must admit the market seems absolutely drained of good stock!
Few days ago I have found this small plate and I believe it's Japanese, export, possibly 18th C. Would you be so kind and share your thought with, please?
Is it Ko Imari?
Diameter: 10cm.
Kind regards,
Adrian
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
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Hi,
I keep coming back to this and then having a look around but have nothing very helpful to say. I did come across a useful site, in case anyone is interested: https://chano-yu.com/types-of-japanese-pottery-and-porcelain/
I really am unsure as to when and where this was made. I can see that it does look like early Imari, but I have not found anything with that strange pattern, nor anything similar in Chinese plates in Japanese taste. Maybe I simply don't have the experience to know where to look or what to look for.
It is an unusual pattern with all the lines and angular shapes, I wonder if they represent flags? Might it be European, maybe German?
Julia
Hi Adrian,
Think it is hard to establish place of origin with out seeing the base. Some aspects of the decoration look to my eye to have been added at a later date, outside of the place it was originally made in other words clobbered. Thanks for the link Julia some interesting reading there
Michael
Thank you guys for your support and your comments, really appreciate that!
I must admit I have seen something very similar before, I just can't remember where 🙂
My apologies for not providing photo of the back - I had it as I had removed the plate completely, in the centre there is a lot of old clay paste that was used as a filler for the ormolu base 🙁 so it's impossible to say if there was any mark - I do not want to attempt removing that paste, it feels rock solid. But for some reason I do not have this photo anymore 🙁 The back looked 100% Japanese to me.
I do also think it was decorated later...
I'll let you know if I manage to find out more about this funny saucer.
Kind regards,
Adrian
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]
Adrian, funny you should say that, as when I first saw it, my over-riding feeling was that I had seen something similar somewhere before.
I hoped it would come back to me, which is why it took me so long to respond. If I do remember, I will let you know.
Julia
Hi Adrian,
To confirm then...the clobbered part would be the black circle with the light yellow and pink flowers? The other areas seem to be coordinated with underglaze blues. And the reds, then, would all be original. It struck me as Japanese also. Without that black circle, even more so. Although, as with everyone else, its unusual to my eye. As Julia postulates, maybe those are flags? Not really sure...
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi all,
Robert McPherson has left me a comment on fb page for Japanese early porcelain. In his opinion it's dated from 1720-40 and not armorial. I was dating it bit later than that, I thought it's c1780-1820, something like that, so good thing is I was slightly wrong, but I am also gently disappointed knowing now it's not armorial - again, I genuinely thought it was a saucer coming from an export service made specially for an European client...
Julia: yes, exactly, it bothers me deeply now, as I'm like 100% sure I have seen it somewhere before, but that's just how memory is working (or not?).
Todd: absolutely, I have the same feeling about the extra black added later and red being original.
I'm not really good with Japanese porcelain, specially earlier pieces, so now I have a small annoying plate that won't let me rest 🙂
Thank you again for your comments and support - it's a massive help!
Kind regards,
Adrian
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]
@adrian
Did Rob confirm if he thinks it's Japanese?
Also,
I personally do not think this was clobbered/added to later, but I see why it would be assumed by some.
This style looks uncommon if you're a collector or dealer of Chinese, but for Japanese this is far from scarce on older porcelains.
1720-1740 would put it within the range of Ko-Kutani, which is rumoured to have ended somewhat abruptly in the 1730s until being revived in the 1800s in a variety of styles.
I don't think this would be Kaga produced of that period; as true Ko-Kutani pieces are beyond exceedingly rare, but I say this for the following:
Also during this time (and priorly not officiated), it is now recognized that kilns in the Saga and Nagasaki prefectures made porcelain in the Ko-Kutani style; with spaced out elements resemblant of old Iroe (色絵) style, also known as Gosaite.
You can see this especially represented in pieces from Hizen kilns during the Edo period, and later revivals throughout the rest of the 19th century and beyond.
Very possible it's a piece of older Hizen-ware imo
Best,
-JRN
It is the black part that reminds me of something, that and the sails or flags whatever they are. Something Asian, from around early 18th c I think.
The flowers reminded me of Strohblumen (in the wrong colour) which is why I suggested possibly European.
Julia
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