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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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Roman or Chinese horse, ancient or new?

 
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4437
Topic starter 03/09/2022 8:55 pm  

A dealer friend asked if I could help him figure out this bronze horse. He bought it from a consignment shop where it was labelled as Chinese so that is why he asked me to help. I get a bit confused with style of horses, so I wasn't sure. After doing some research, I am thinking it is more likely done in the Greco-Roman style and could possibly be a rendering of Bucephalus, the famous horse of Alexander the Great. I am not very experienced with old patina, so I can't tell if this is ancient or more recent made to look ancient. I do however like the rendering of the horse either way, so it seems like it could be a very nice piece. There is a reinforcement bar going down the middle of the underside that is iron, but the rest seems to be bronze including the base. Hopefully the pictures are adequate for examining the patina. Thanks for any help and insights you might be able to provide. Cheers!  John

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 Zhen
(@zjadey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 53
03/09/2022 10:32 pm  

The style is not similar to Chinese horse to me.


   
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
04/09/2022 12:00 am  

i agree with your greco-roman assessment. i can't help with the age, but for the right price i surely would have bought it as it is attractive. is the body distinctly hollow? or does it feel "solid"?


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4437
Topic starter 04/09/2022 12:51 am  

@tonyatl I tapped on it and it felt hollow.


   
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
04/09/2022 1:10 am  
Posted by: @johnshoe

@tonyatl I tapped on it and it felt hollow.

my hunch is that it was artificially aged and is not antique. however, someone more knowledgeable about the underside construction could persuade me otherwise. i have seen that bar on older as well as faked pieces.


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7025
04/09/2022 3:45 am  

Spelter not bronze. 

Mark 


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4437
Topic starter 04/09/2022 7:10 am  

@imperialfinegems if you look at the underside picture, you can see the untarnished base metal in a few areas on the foot and it looks yellow. Wouldn't spelter present as more white?

This post was modified 3 years ago by johnshoe

   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7025
04/09/2022 7:23 am  

Spelter is the poor man's bronze. Much cheaper. 

Screenshot 20220904 212123

   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
04/09/2022 9:23 am  

@johnshoe You mentioned not being familiar with old patina.  Patina is what you might find on bronzes that are only a few hundred or so years old.... it is oxidation in the form of tarnish, essentially a very fine darkened layer of the surface metal that has darkened.  Patina is often easily removed from harsh cleaning, so you have to be careful to avoid using abbrasive pads or chemicals.

However, your bronze (which appears to be fairly new) does not have patina, but mineralization.  Mineralization is the accumulation of crystals that form on metals after long periods of time (400 years or more), and although it is a different process, think of it like fozzilation, the process of organic objects (like dinasaur bones) being replaced with inorganic material.

The minerals that are most often seen on bronze are azurite (blue), malachite (green), and cuprite (brown red).  

Mineralization of bronze generally occurs in layers, that is the crystals form sheets of crystals over the surface and into the bronze itself.  This layering often form a nice shiney surface, which is why most archaic vases look so beautiful.  Typically, graininess does occur, but in spots.... not the entire surface.  Objects entirely covered in grainy crystals is a good sign of artificial creation.

I've had some Ming pieces that have had a more grainy mineralization on the interior, but the exterior patina of has always been rather smooth to the touch.

Let me add that I had acquried a nice collection of small Roman bronzes some years ago which I sold at auction in New York.  As I recall, the mineralization was not different from Chinese pieces I had owned.


   
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