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Red Splashed Carved Yuhuchunping Vase

 
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
Topic starter 30/12/2021 2:32 pm  

Hey Folks,

So I popped into my favorite shop, and grabbed this up since it was cheap and I kind of like it.  I suspect modern, but I know nothing about these sorts of things, and it seems like that orange on the foot isn't that applied finish but rather the porcelain itself (I mean I dabbed on a little of every solvent in my workshop, and toluene and methanol usually removes the painted on stuff, this didn't budge).  There is some green mixed into the red too. 

No idea.

Jeremy

IMG 7405
IMG 7403
IMG 7406
IMG 7407
IMG 7408
IMG 7410
IMG 7409

   
John Guerrero and Adams Asian Art reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
30/12/2021 2:44 pm  

I don't know either, but I would have bought it also. I'll be curious to see what others think.  John


   
Sharon P, John Guerrero and Jeremy Beer reacted
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avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
30/12/2021 3:03 pm  

One thing is certain. If it's a real Yuan dynasty example it's a very lucky find.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4245
30/12/2021 3:13 pm  

i think if you didn’t pay much there is no big lost. I had one of these sold it for about $50 bucks only decorative value. The glaze foot red underglaze form are all in question. But let’s see what others say. 


   
Jeremy Beer reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
Topic starter 30/12/2021 3:16 pm  

@avatar 

I highly doubt it is that old but yes that would be neat...

No idea if this is a reputable auctioneer, but there are some similarities.

Jeremy

https://www.coronariauctions.com/en/auction-asian-european-and-islamic-arts-2/964-a-chinese-blue-and-white-yuan-style-yuhuchunping-vase-with-a-dragon-qing-or-later


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
30/12/2021 3:17 pm  

@jbeer2121 

Hi Jeremy -

This is a pastiche and modern reproduction …

The dragon composition is copying that seen on authentic Yuan yuhuchunpings, usually in underglaze blue, and the red splashes also copy that occasionally seen on such wares, but the detailing and execution of the carving, copper/glaze tones and trimming/finishing of the footrim are all wrong … 

I will trace/post some images tomorrow for comparison …

Stuart 


   
John Guerrero, Sharon P and Jeremy Beer reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
Topic starter 30/12/2021 3:18 pm  

@ming1449 

Thanks Stuart, that is what I figured.... Still happy for $25.

Would love to see the comparisons.

Cheers,

Jeremy


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4245
30/12/2021 3:46 pm  

@jbeer2121 you can double and triple that everyone I put up for sale I get double to triple. It’s still a nice return. 


   
John Guerrero, Sharon P and Jeremy Beer reacted
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 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
30/12/2021 4:19 pm  

I see a lot of Yuan style porcelain pieces. Most of it is of course replica but some of the material also seem to be authentic. There was a reverse decorated pear-shaped dragon vase sold for one thousand dollars this year that to me looked interesting. See if I can post a picture of it another day.


   
John Guerrero reacted
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
31/12/2021 7:19 am  

@jbeer2121 

Hi Jeremy - 

Just for reference, images/descriptions of a Yuan blue/white dragon yuhuchunping, sold Lot 38, Sotheby’s HK, 7 April 2011 from the Meiyintang Coll ...

The two yuhuchunping with splash decoration were sold Lot 652, Sotheby’s HK, 20 May 1981, and the other two, first with incised rabbit amongst flowers and second with incised lotus, are both in the Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing ...

Note the great variations in the red tone on these pieces ...

Underglazed red is immensely difficult to control and fire, a process that was never achieved during the Yuan period. It was only in the early Ming, during the Yongle/Xuande reigns, that the Imperial kilns were able to fire such pieces successfully but the failure rate, as attested by the huge amount of shards unearthed at the Imperial kiln site since the 80’s, was incredibly high. This glaze type was was largely abandoned after Xuande, been replaced by overglaze iron red, and only reintroduced during the Kangxi period ...

The last image/description shows an extremely rare Yuan dish with moulded dragon against a blue ground, included for comparison with the carved/moulded decoration on your vase ... 

I hope these are of some help ... 

Still, as you say, for $25 ...!! 

Stuart 

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4F352C08 4C2B 4D69 A195 DE949B9C50FF
49D70C56 BF2B 4A27 84A1 68F8F0914ABB
BC6B713B 6FC4 456C 8381 18BA060016C3
2A6C4EA8 AD65 4606 B5F9 86D5BBBB277E
B8629AA8 AC8D 4CF1 8E9B 0C16A6EA3A33
733B23D3 3684 4467 97CA 3BA9C8445FFF
B8232977 CA69 4525 8C20 DD3F4D4A4C99
F553BB3F 9CDF 4BB6 811B 93B30B12B72D

   
William Huvar, Jeremy Beer, Adams Asian Art and 1 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
31/12/2021 8:06 am  

Stuart, may I ask what what would happen if the firing went wrong? Would the red burn to black or flake? I assume it would be something unwanted, rather than an unexpected pleasant surprise?


   
Jeremy Beer reacted
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William Huvar
 William Huvar
(@william)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 664
31/12/2021 12:36 pm  

@julia 

Typically, they fired a washed out greyish color instead of red.  If they were lucky there was a pale red tone.

D730C5F8 0C60 4B79 AAB9 DF78ADBF72E9

 


   
Sharon P, Ming1449, Julia and 1 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
31/12/2021 1:42 pm  

Thank you, that is interesting.  Grey didn't occur to me.  I bet some would still have been lovely in our 21st c eyes.


   
Sharon P reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
31/12/2021 2:14 pm  

@julia I have also seen red that turns green and brown instead. Not sure if the green happened way back when or if it is more Qing/modern times effect. 


   
Sharon P and Julia reacted
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William Huvar
 William Huvar
(@william)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 664
31/12/2021 3:27 pm  

@johnshoe 

The Yuan/Ming underglaze reds had different chemical compositions as compared to the later Qing underglaze reds.  This led to the different firing side effects that you mentioned.  Also, copper red was always tricky due to the various kiln conditions that needed to be met for successful firing of red glazes.


   
Julia, Ming1449, Sharon P and 1 people reacted
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