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Hi John,
Ran across this item from the John Coates’ collection, from a link that Michael posted a few weeks ago. Probably not helpful, but I am not sure if you’ve located more scroll designs, so here it is. Not identical, but has similarities.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi John,
My friend responded that he didn't know the mark. Only that they were Meiji examples.
Interesting!
Mark
Thank you Todd and Mark! I can certainly see the Chinese influence more clearly from the Shibata bowls. They look pretty similar! It's also interesting to know that the scrolls are rarer than I previously thought. Thank you for checking with your friend, Mark. It's interesting that they thought it was Meiji. There are some mixed opinions on it now!
I was looking at a previous auction catalog and came across this bowl that passed near me without me noticing! It has the exact mark, and they have it dated as Edo. I truly wish I was more observant of this auction since I did bid on a number of things here.
https://auctions.potomackcompany.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=IT189+++1153+&refno=+++88603
John
Thought I would post this item on this thread.
Just purchased on Ebay. It is a bit different from others I have seen. No mark. Am thinking Meiji, but not sure. The decoration seems to be nice quality. Ten inches across. My 1st black ships piece, although the ship isn’t black...does it still qualify?
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
That is an interesting piece, the pattern is very intricate but is that a misalignment on the border around the footrim?
Hi Todd!
Cool purchase! I say it qualifies! Although I have lumped my very blue Koransha vase with my black ships collection, so I may be a poor judgment on that.
I had this on my watchlist and considered bidding because it was so unusual for the pattern. I think the lighting for the photos is too dark and don't show its true colors - would love to see photos of it in a better light when it arrives. My gut feeling was that it was mid-20th and I struggled on origin. I have seen an underglaze? blue for the waves a few times, and two had Qianlong marks. I haven't really found a valid comparison though.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/101665668_imari-namban-bowl-qianlong-mark-19th-century
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3800833_516-japanese-imari-porcelain-black-ship-vase-3-in
Do you think some of the decorations may be transfer printed/stamped?
Kind regards,
John
Thanks Julia and John,
I think it is definitely printed/transferred. Still haven’t received it, should be here soon.
How about this charger? 18 inches…
take it with a grain of salt
I can't enlarge the pictures, so I am not quite certain I can say very much.
My initial feeling is that it looks hastily done. Has it got 3 spur marks and are the holes in the rim made at manufacture? I think it could be more recent than it wants to appear, but as I can't see it well, that opinion could be wrong.
I am sure John will be able to give you a more informative response.
Japanese Spurs are made from white clay not porcelain modern Spurs are made from metal not clay leaving a impression but no clay.
John, I can’t help with your datings or manufacture questions but can tell you that is a great collection and must look spectacular and very colourful displayed on your etagere.
Ron
An interesting observation (I think) almost all the flags have alternating black, white, and red flags on each mast, on all but Todd’s bowl the sequence of colours changes, I find this a bit of an interesting oddity. Can it be used for dating I don’t think so. Also, I noticed there is a bit of fascination with the ships lightning rods, all part of the standard black ship pattern I guess.
Ron
Hey Todd! Good to hear from you and glad to see you've taken an interest in black ships! This one is later half of the 20th century in my opinion, because of the hanging holes Julia pointed out, and the execution and mix of the design.
It's also interesting that the ship is facing right instead of left, which is where all of the older Edo/Meiji period pieces face. This is something I'd buy though to hang on my wall. I like it, even if it may be a bit hastily done.
I will also say, I looked at this and saw a fun mix between Chinese export and Black ships imari. The design overall is imitating black ships with the panels and diaper background, but the color scheme is unique, and the flowing ship pennants/flags and rigging reminds me of some Chinese export plates. Although this one faces left, many Chinese export ships face right too: https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-5969451
Kind regards,
John
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