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Hi, All.
Well, this plate is in pretty bad shape, and I think I paid too much for it. It has been repaired, and the damage was well camouflaged; The background of the plate was expertly painted in the damaged areas to match the glaze color, and the plate had a coating of spray varnish, to make the repair and the rest of the plate have the same finish. The varnish was peeling and when I took it off, the damage became obvious. A big repair, and several repaired chips on the edges. And lots of enamel abrasion.
But it is an interesting plate. I like the stubby little dragon and the tiger, in the famille rose like flowers. I am guessing mid-to-late 19th century, but the foot rim is very neat indeed--no grit, and very neat and clean and white and thin. It also has an odd profile, with a little step on the bottom, around the foot trim.
Is this a mid-19th century piece?
Thanks,
Charles
I am struggling with this one. I wish I could hold it. I wonder why it has so much damage in the deep parts of the fluting? That is just a thinking out loud remark.
I don't know what it is exactly, but I feel this is possibly later. The shape is unusual, I had a 1930s dish a little like that. I think the turquoise and yellow, the way the flowers and butterflies are done are all relevant and make me think later. Then there is the centre which is lovely and unusual but perhaps it should have better quality if it were older.
On the other hand, the centre decoration can be said to support an older date; these became quite stereotypical and this clearly is interesting an unusual, so it may just be a less precisely decorated 1830s piece.
I am interested to hear what others think. May I ask though, how does the yellow feel? Is it smooth or rough?
Yes, a difficult one. Julia, I think the wear is on the top rims of the fluting, exactly where you would expect it. The painting is by a practiced hand though not high quality. It reminds me of later Rose Mandarin. In my opinion late Guangxu which is also in accordance with the foot and back side. Charles, if I were you I would take it apart, remove the discolored traces of the repair and reglue it.
Birgit
Thanks, Birgit, I see now that I was looking at the fluting in reverse! That wear would be ok. 😊 I would feel more confident with the date you suggest. I was thinking around 1910 to 20 so we are near enough in the same area.
I do like it, the central design makes it far more interesting than the more usual style.
The yellow is rough and frosted, but all of the high points of the enamel are rough. Like the fluting, it was all abraded by wear. Think that is why it was covered with varnish, to hide or at least to minimize the abrasion.
I don't know why there is so much wear--no cutlery marks. Just stacking wear? Or, possibly on purpose to help the varnish stick? On the back, it looks very much like the surface was purposely roughened on the fluting...
Charles
Thanks for that, Charles. I am interested in the feel of the yellows, sometimes they are quite rough.
@kirby13 Charles, your plate is mid 19th c. Around that time there was an off shoot of famille verte that had rose medallion characterisits & colors (as your plate has) that had some fairly interesting designs.
That is very interesting, Tim. I would never have got famille verte from looking at this. I shall have to have a look to see what I can find.
Greeno is right. I always wondered why this type of ware doesn't have a proper classification. They are very well characteristic and easy to identify, they deserve a class apart for them.
They share common features, and are always very well decorated on the borders. I like them.
Giovanni
I would love to see more examples as I am not sure what I am looking for not being sure what the defining characteristics are. If either of you have any examples I would love to see them, please.
Dear Julia,
on Gotheborg, I have started a discussion, with the scope of finding a way (a name) for identifying this peculiar type of ware.
They are so specially a case apart, there must be a reason for that. Produced only at one kiln? A very narrow period? It is not clear, but the general consensus is second half of 19th century.
Tommy invented a nice name for the classification: mauve mandarin.
Here the picture of one dish that I have sold. All them has an abundance of green, and the borders are highly elaborated, with many colors.
I have seen plates, vases, tea bowls.
Regards,
Giovanni
@clayandbrush Is this plate I have of the same type? Sorry just realized how blurry the pictures are. Bad even for me! Let me know if you need better ones. Maybe you can tell anyway. John
Vamille verte? Wow, I would never have guessed that. Thanks, Greeno and Giovanni!
Thanks, Giovanni. I am familiar with the term and recall the debate on Gotheborg but not having seen any mauve it didn't occur to me that this might be such a piece. I shall have to look at it again, thank you for your help.
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