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Hi All,
When I found this at an antique store this weekend, I recognized it immediately from Peter's video's. So I bought it, and then looked up similar pieces online, and it certainly looks good to me. But I have never seem one of these in person before. Any thoughts?
It is certainly seriously damaged. The repair looks old, and has remains of gold lacquer on it, so it may be a Japanese repair. Peter always says even minor damage takes 80% of the value, and this isn't minor damage. I paid $160 for it--given the damage, is that still a reasonable price? It is 34 cm high.
I think it's very nice--love the odd strap-like foo-dog handles, that appear to be characteristic of this type of vase, based on what I found online. Does the image with the elder and the deer represent a particular story? Similar pieces online are called "late Qing"; given the length of the Qing dynasty, that covers a lot of ground. Can anyone narrow that down a little? (This was sold as a "19th century" Chinese vase.)
Thanks,
Charles
A Chinese blue and white on celadon ground 'Immortals' vase,
i am not so happy with the colour of the footrim also the Pianting is not very well done not enough attention to details.
Also the shape of it ,a bit clumsy .
this one looks like yours https://www.coronariauctions.com/cn/asian-european-and-islamic-arts/168-a-chinese-blue-and-white-on-celadon-ground-immortals-vase-19th-c?c=1
not shure about 19th century for comparison one that solt at RM Auctions.
lets see what other members say
Hi Charles,
In my opinion your vase is somewhere between 1880-1920's. It got a beautiful celedon glaze. So could be guangxu to early republic period. It's 100% not later than republican period!
The immortal with the big head and deer is Shoulou. Very popular design.
Nice piece despite the damage. OK for the price.
Mark
Hi Charles -
Not really my area so will defer to others regarding attributed dating ...
Concur with Mark@imperialfinegems - the gentleman with the large, bold headed brow is Shoulou, the God of Longevity, also known as ‘Nanji laoren (the Old Man of the South Pole) ...
He is usually, but not always, depicted holding either a peach or ruyi shaped staff, or occasionally fan, in his hand and accompanied by a spotted dear, and occasionally a stork, both symbolising longevity ...
This composition was very popular in the early/mid 16th C Ming dynasty and is often seen on blue/white and wucai (five colour) enamel decorated wares ...
Stuart
Hi Charles - my apologies, forgot to add:-
Compositions with Shoulou, usually accompanied by the Eight Immortals was also very popular on Fahua (designs with boundaries) pieces in the late 15th/early 16th C, and also on blue/white, sometimes with polychrome enamels, wares in the mid 17th C ...
So a long history of use ...
Stuart
Thanks, All.
Martin, your two examples are really great. The quality of the second one is amazing; my piece is definitely much more similar to the first. And now that you mention it, it does look a bit stubby... Sounds like it might be Republic instead of 19th century, but at least, not modern!
And thanks, all, for the information on the motif. 90% of the joy of collecting is knowing what things mean!
Charles
I'm in the learning stage but is $160 a normal price for a damaged item I only buy Chinese porcelain from thrift stores and yard sales most of my items are damaged or drilled but I thought it was worthless damaged?
@lotusblack Damage always reduces value, but how much I think it depends on what the item is and the degree of damage. But for sure there are some big ticket items that have repairs that still go for a lot. I think some of the members here have had some good experiences with that and perhaps they will chime in to share some of their success stories.
Hi Brian -
Damage will always impact on prices obtained, no matter what the media, but that impact very much depends on a number of factors ...
If the object is Imperial, and/or very high/good quality, is a rare/desirable/good shape, has exceptionally fine or very high/good quality painting and/or has a rare/good composition done in fine/good quality cobalt/ enamels and exhibits fine/good/0 and/or clear glaze tones then it will undoubtedly fetched a high price, sometimes exceptionally so, for the rarest/best pieces ...
Another factor that effects prices is the inclusion of authentic and documented provenance such as old invoices, previous collection history, has the piece been included in publications and/or exhibitions etc ...
The above is my experiences with Chinese porcelains, usually Imperial Ming and Qing wares but also very high quality, non-imperial wares. Both types, even with damage - sometimes substantial - can still fetch extremely high prices in the major, and occasionally provincial, auction rooms ...
Perhaps Mark@imperialfinegems and George@gfhandel might like to comment on jades, paintings Japanese pieces ...
Stuart
I think this is very recent - the burnt footrim looks fresh and nothing like late C19th examples, and the painting of shou lao and the deer are very awkward and clumsy, just my opinion
tam
Hi Tam18,
Interesting comments. The inside lip appears to my eye to be rendered by hand. Hence my view it was old.
If this was a more recent piece it would be machine made!
Mark
I agree with Tam18 - The rendering falls short of what one would expect of the famous depiction of Shoulao during the 19th c.
I feel that during the period of 2015-2018 I started noticing reproduction pieces being sold with damage, sometimes restored with old looking staples, sometime left with large visible cracks, and others with a strange plaster like fill along the repair.
It is difficult to believe that anyone woukd go to great lengths to fake repair on a reproduction Canton piece given the value of undamaged genuine pieces are not unreasonable (usually under $1,000).
I think what might had been going on was imperfect pieces that got damaged during production were being sold at a discount, and then made their way into the antique market appearing older than actuality because of the damage.
Are there other signs of age? Surface scratches around the mouth, an accumulation of dirt and grease inside the foo dog tail handles, or scratches around the base or shoulders of the vase? Hard to tell, but it looks pretty pristine.
Charles - You'll develop a better sense for age in good time, but my experience has taught me to focus first on the quality of the artistry, then try determing the age. Personally, I'd rather make the 'mistake' of buying a beautiful fake that is carefully rendered, than a badly rendered period piece - both have very little collector's value, but the beautiful fake looks a whole lot nicer on one's book shelf.
Have a closer look. Hand or machine?
Mark
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