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this still intrigues me..can't find another piece with the same qianlong piece. any thoughts?
@lep There are numerous variations of the Qianlong seal mark. What are you trying to understand about this mark?
Is it authentic? Yes it is, but that does not make the piece that bears this mark authentic. Authenticity can not be determined solely on a mark.
was trying to understand if it has some relation to late or earlier period or other aspect.. but I guess maybe no, just a different style!
thanks for your insight!
@lep I do not think the period, early Qianlong vs. late Qinalong, can be determined by the mark. There is a factual history of what marks should appear on a particular form, glaze, style of object. For example, an incised mark 6 character seal mark is the correct mark for a flambe moon flask (something that was being discussed recently in another thread).
However, as is more often the case than not, a convincingly authentic mark leads many buyers to spend $$$ on a piece that's overall appearance makes it an obvious later piece.
Let me share a short story and some advice...
My dear friend (and I mean that sincerely), who I started buying and selling Chinese antiques with around 2008, is Chinese. For several years, he and I traveled together buying antiques. I admired that he could read every mark and assumed that he had a huge advantage over me, an English speaking novice. It was clear that my friend devoted most of his attention to the mark or signature on a piece.
Knowing my own limitations, I knew while I could memorize the basic Ming and Qing reign marks, I realized I would never acquire the knowledge to the 100's of other types of marks that genuine porcelains often have. Furthermore, I knew that I would never understand how each character is suppose to be drawn (the order and shape of the strokes). So, I invested my time into studying the designs, colors, and meanings (rebus-hidden meaning) of the Chinese motifs.
In the first year, I would say we were equally matched in our success and failures. However, the growing demand for genuine Chinese porcelains, and the influx of more and more high quality fakes into the market to fill the demand, I quickly overtook my friend in my ability to find, identify, and profit from from the buying and selling of Chinese porcelain.
There are two reasons for this.
First, there are many high quality Chinese porcelains that have no marks, and as mark and period pieces became increasingly scarce, unmarked pieces rose in price. Being able to differentiate genuine pieces on the basis of their design, color, and rebus (hidden meaning) allowed me to find some fantastic unmarked pieces among the plethera of ordinary unmarked pieces.
Secondly, the quality of the fake marks became increasingly hard to differentiate from authentic marks. Today, modern made marks are spot on perfect, and Ebay and most online auctions are happy to push them as genuine at the expense of collectors who focus their knowledge on the mark, and nothing else.
I am not suggesting you are not looking at the overall design as well as the mark, but to be honest, I find discussions on marks without any idea of the piece bearing the mark a little like hunting for big foot. People find a foot print, a hair, or a blurry photo... but never a clear shot of the whole beast. It's very hard to tell if it is real or just imaginary on the basis of so little evidence.
As for my advice, let me suggest that if you encounter what you believe is a genuine looking mark on a piece of Chinese porcelain, and you're considering buying the piece... STOP and re-evaluate the piece as if the mark never existed. A genuine mark and perid piece will always stand up on the quality of it's overall aesthetics.
@greeno107 thanks again for your insights!
this is just a case of curiosity, because it seems a simplified version of the mark, but this is a seal from a qianlong period piece (which I'll post in a separately entry).. But yeah, we can never trust only in one or two aspects, we have to be eyes on all angles 🙂
🤗
Tim
In my search for 18th century monochromes, I also sought out the unmarked pieces because they were more affordable unlike the mark and period examples which were usually too expensive for my budget. Alas, not the case today!
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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