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Dear Julia,
I think that there should be no problems in posting the link here, because it will be anyway accessible to members only:
https://www.gotheborg.com/discus/read.php?file=/23708/467739.html
Dear Luis, I am not expert on European copies, but I believe that it is the case here. I think so especially for the hairdo of the ladies, which is not Chinese, and the decoration of the border, which looks Chinese but with European features.
May be 18th century anyway.
If European, it would be interesting to find the original from where they did copy.
Giovanni
In my opinion it's not Chinese or Japanese. It's European and could be from the later part of the 19th century. I don't think it's a new copy.
The way the figures are depicted is all over the place. The flowers depicted on from and back rim are not Chinese in my opinion.
Would be interesting to read what Peter thinks it.
Mark
Thank you, Giovanni, I will check that out.
I think this has some age, too. I also have european pieces with similar double foot rims and there is a distintly european look to the figures but also in the composition. It reminds me of classically styled Italian paintings. I even looked to see if there was an obvious candidate to have been copied by the Chinese or re-interpreted.
So interesting, thanks for posting this, Luis.
That was very interesting. What a lovely vase, Giovanni! I actually thought the plate's border looked Qianlong-style or an attempt to copy that look. The people look much more european on the plate though.
I do like 18th c hands, always so expressive. I shall have to look at the plate again, now.
Sorry to post again, but the hands on the plate, like the faces, the central figure's hat, the boys hair are not quite right. It is also interesting that the lady at the table appears to be on a garden stool not seated in a wheeled chair - at least I think it is a wheel on Giovanni's vase. I wondered if the construction might have helped with dating.
@imperialfinegems That's a very good point Mark.
Please ignore front, I want to show a back as an example.
https://moorabool.com/product/spode-dollar-pattern-imari-plate-pat-283-circa-1825/
@Audrius
@lucky found a closer match in the back of this one, supports the theory of a copy of a 18th century plate/theme, now I'm more convinced it's a european piece..
https://pollylatham.com/fine-kangxi-famille-verte-charger-7277/
Is the foot rim unglazed on yours, Luis? By the 19th c, I would have thought most English porcelain had glazed foot rims like the Spode piece. Would that most likely be true of other european pieces? If so, possibly an 18th c copy as Giovanni suggests?
So, french, rouen, 18th cent?
That could be a good indication of age and possibly origin? Faience tends to be earthenware I believe, but the french did have a hard porcelain. I assume yours looks and feels like Chinese? I get a bit confused with the technical details of soft and hard and Chinese.
I have double foot rims on some German porcelain pieces but they are 19th c and glazed.
"In the second half of the 18th century another striking type of Rouen faience was the highly original oriental-style ware, the makers of which blended elements of the Chinese famille rose and famille verte styles with elements from the Japanese Kakiemon style."
👍
even if it's not...always learning here!!
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