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sally Owens
 sally Owens
(@tukfrump)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 202
Topic starter 22/01/2022 1:59 pm  

Hi,

Is anyone familiar with these pieces?

 Thank you 

Sally

C9D0F21E C404 4BFB 9867 DA26982CBC3E
10BDB2EE 1AD1 4A43 8EB2 7A797CBE275B
FFD93EA2 AE13 4813 A4A6 9FAD21A45736

 


   
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sally Owens
 sally Owens
(@tukfrump)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 202
Topic starter 23/01/2022 1:51 pm  
C161B6CC 2810 4F74 ACC5 88A493C49097

This is the mark on the back. Thank y’all 


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
23/01/2022 2:32 pm  

I think that says nian zhi as appears at the end of reign marks meaning period made but I may be wrong. I have not see them out of the reign mark context before.


   
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JOHN LEE
 JOHN LEE
(@jjytlee)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 132
25/01/2022 12:08 am  

These are not Chinese or Japanese.


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4522
25/01/2022 11:57 am  

@jjytlee John, do you think they are Korean or European with a pseudo mark? Elaborate please. 

@tukfrump Sally, they are very pretty with the precious objects regardless of manufacture, did you find them at an estate sale? Sharon


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7075
25/01/2022 12:13 pm  

I think Sharon P is correct here. Probably Korean but I am unsure. My korean friend had been offline for a week!

Mark 

This post was modified 3 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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JOHN LEE
 JOHN LEE
(@jjytlee)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 132
25/01/2022 1:05 pm  

I don’t think they’re Korean, either, because (1) the markings on the saucer that seem to purport to be Chinese characters are just fanciful impressions, (2) as Sharon points out the mark on the bottom merely says (and the form of the two characters is not convincing) “made in the year of”, and (3) the human figures don’t really look Asian. Not the product of a Sinosphere culture.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
25/01/2022 2:13 pm  

No, it isn't a convincing mark, I should have made that clear and said that it is attempting to be nian zhi which is pretty meaningless on its own.

It would be interesting to see the others in the set. I am not sure they are European, they look modern so would have to be marked in some way that shows their origin.  Unless of course they came to that country as part of someone's possessions from a country where items don't need to be marked with origin unless they are being exported.  Does that still happen?


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2632
Watership - Skype
26/01/2022 12:14 am  

Maybe Austrian, agree they don’t look very Asian. 
Todd

take it with a grain of salt


   
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sally Owens
 sally Owens
(@tukfrump)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 202
Topic starter 27/01/2022 7:04 pm  
576756FF 0C18 41F1 BCE7 F96C43C4C2BB
89F8395C ACE7 4348 B7C1 598FA6504A16
D0880588 BB35 488A B019 683294DA20E4
AF1771E8 7308 41C4 80DA CEA5AF95688F

there is some writing on the saucer, although it looks odd.
These are being offered for sale and were purchased at an estate sale, as they say. Probably impossible to find out where they were made.

Thanks for everyone’s help,

cheers

sally


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7075
27/01/2022 7:58 pm  

@tukfrump, 

Hi Sally, 

The first two letters are Dai Nippon. Used primarily during the Meij period 1868-1912. However it was commonly used right through to the late 1930's. 

The way that the calligraphy is written is a bit odd. As is the general decoration. It may not be Japanese but a copy as such. Or perhaps from the 60's/70's. 

Strictly speaking the script from the Meij period was written right to left. After 1912 it was written generally left to right. Yours starts left to right with the other letters jumbled. 

So best wait for others to chim in with their thoughts. 

Mark 

 


   
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JOHN LEE
 JOHN LEE
(@jjytlee)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 132
28/01/2022 12:17 am  

Mark, I don't think there's a Dai Nippon 大日本 hiding in that nest - I think it's really someone's impression of what Chinese characters are supposed to look like.  

Sally, if we had seen these two cups with the Fu Man Chu-type characters first, it would have been clear from the beginning that this set did not originate from east of the Suez.  Chinoiserie, perhaps, but not Chinese, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese.  They do look like good quality porcelain, though.

John


   
sally Owens, Adams Asian Art, Julia and 2 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
28/01/2022 3:20 pm  

This is just about to end so may not be visible. I am not saying this is a direct comparison but the faces are not dissimilar. The mark on the back, is Haviland & CO, Limoges. They clearly made chinoiserie and produced modern Chinese style pieces.

Basically, I am also moving to thinking these are probably european. Underneath the first are modern plates, cooies of ones I had hoped to buy about a year ago - I posted them on here, but they will be gone.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/313843549824

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333705540498


   
Sharon P, Shinigami, JOHN LEE and 1 people reacted
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JOHN LEE
 JOHN LEE
(@jjytlee)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 132
29/01/2022 11:10 pm  

Julia's on the right track!  I looked at the eBay examples she posted, and there was a link to another item that is very similar to Sally's set, described as "porcelaine de Paris" and dated to around 1900. 

John

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/164300305907?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818141841%26meid%3D42cc5c07096748da85f154fa9ba2bef7%26pid%3D101111%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D154803908972%26itm%3D164300305907%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3DThematicAlgo&_trksid=p2563228.c101111.m2109&amdata=cksum%3A16430030590742cc5c07096748da85f154fa9ba2bef7%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAAB4D6p2I%252FGU6uib0ZbOQkXO%252FBVouzoFprbH%252BcgFss5f0h8HeYuZD0e9rSAweLd0DhhFv6VLFbUqej0QbylS83p5LXrrQN6q4hnUklmXVmmGVAY1NJGt%252B5EkN81L%252F3k9HKOqIM%252FPB1T%252B8tyih0%252B510CKpmfi1zrLUoyRQofnXRbeYT2SB7e3fl8gE9Yamjc8tzXZoOwagmjPkNNuBllxLHQh2xeOuv9%252FR7oRCFV5314qrrxky10G8fYRmEgOdytL8JSq0OWfxTiw1uXNtBT3nfo8pO5eS64%252BBn1lfh4aR4BBaX5WN83tYt0x%252BEdoCn07SRjP4oj0eLauXxNNZzWskaZ2zqKrl0r5HZ80FKsMCHIjjyQNnRR4QBZ4bXFTe9LCnGwLH58JwHeNqnNAeZhoi9T3zNH9AHhZ8e%252B1emqsGhRgwpaeq2B9sxf2I%252FSkmVacpQoagOfXAFnKiXVfR2t07mnKhNEUClBUaPqCvuDPrDdWZ0UjSyftHNeGi2EXVlp3%252B3mdINn3NXAkhLg2ZQOOq6QVCxzdjKrVPOkr80aBKNB5CSLrf1sQqdvIIVYH5vDK6E6kl%252Fyf9%252BoDxqfCFKy3VKPbjAKfhtTD6IhmvIQnIZei%252FGRC2TyECXAXWVjHLhTrJ%252FFQw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2563228

 

 


   
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