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Hi Giliu -
The overall painting style, composition, cobalt tone, footrim size and finishing/trimming would all indicate this is not a Chinese kraak piece ...
Concur with Birgit, probable a Japanese interpretation of late 16th to mid 17th century Chinese design, IMO ...
Such wares are not really my area, and I may well be wrong, so lets wait to hear others thoughts/opinions ...
Stuart
Stuart, I appreciate your good hopes and good wishes. I continue therapy and am now able to walk with assistance of a cane, I’m 77 now. Worst part is I had no symptoms and was unable to ward off and prevent the stroke.
Your warm regards and friendship mean so much to me.
George
I don't think that plate is Japanese.. Very interesting thread. I did found few examples to compare.
I am not convinced those 1st Dibs examples are dated correctly.
I forgot to say that I also looked into the mark and like George, wondered if it was supposed to say Kutani. I looked in Davison and couldn't find the two charachters together, but the second one appears on its own. It was, apparently used during the Ming period and means "suitable, equal to". I don't know how that fits with the first charachter, but it sounds a good thing to write on the back of a copy. 😉
That was just a joke (although may it be true) but I think returning it is the right thing to do. I wouldn't want to display a piece that I purchased as Wanli and have everyone be uncertain that it actually is. It would be different if you had got it cheaply as an unknown as it is a good discussion piece.
George, I too am so glad to hear you are on the mend. 😊
Sorry, did I say I thought it was Japanese? I thought I said I could see why someone said it might be Japanese looking at the front. I am going to have to check as I thought I said I felt it wasn't Ming, but didn't know what it was. I am going to have look back through in case my memory is really failing me. 🤣
Why do you think these 2 are Japanese? The central decoration of the first looks like it could be, but I don't think the second is.
To anyone concerned by my state of mind: my short term memory is fine - for the time being, anyway. 😊
That is really interesting, thanks for posting those pictures. What an interesting thread.
I found my two, not seen them really for a few years so I had forgotten how similar the decoration was to the original one in this thread, but the backs are very different. I thought these were later Japanese copies as I had no experience of Kraak ware and did not know that similar items were made well into the 18th c - and onwards it seems. It was Giovanni and Stuart (I think) who said they were Qianlong. They do feel like later 18th c plates and the back fits that date, too. They have a bluer tinge than shows in the photos and brown-dressed rims. I bought a pile of Dutch, English and Chinese plates and they were amongst them.
Hello folks (yes I am still about, do more reading than commenting now) I have a similar plate and asked the same question. Here is the link from a couple of years ago.
https://bidamount.com/the-bidamount-asian-art-forum/help-identify-this/late-ming#post-45810
Hi Ron,
Nice to hear from you. I had completely forgotten that thread and I commented in it - clearly my long-term memory is not functioning as well as my short-term! 😉
Thanks for posting it.
Julia
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