The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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I think the vase I posted yesterday likely come from one of the numerous kiln copying Longquan ware, most likely one of those in the Fujian province.
I think the vase of yours is authentic Longquan ware from the Yuan or Ming dynasty. Not as high quality as those at Sotheby's but still nice.
Just thought it might be interesting to post this Ebay listing of a similar form 'longquan' mallet vase...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354187717894?hash=item52773bad06:g:wmsAAOSwwPBi4EqR
The Ebay piece is listed as Ming and looks the part, but I still have some doubts (not that it is a terribly valuable example).
The seller has quite a collection of wares that have a high number of bids right from the start of the auction - I see this kind of thing with Joanie's and Juice... they must have a very loyal following of bidders willing to advertise to competitors that they have items worth bidding on.
Honestly, the whole early bidding is very suspect to me. For nearly 5 years I sold roughly $200,000 of Chinese and Japanese items annually on Ebay - no reserves - starting bid of $9.99... If bids came in on Chinese pieces before the final hours of the sale, almost always they were fraudulent, and most of the high bids came in during the very last seconds.
The whole early bidding looks like marketing to me, but they guarantee their pieces are authentic...maybe I'll have a go!
Hi Tim -
I have just looked at this sellers website ...
Images are, as always, subjective but the blue white yuhuchun-ping, described as 'Yuan' and attributed '13/14th century', the large b/w bottle flask and small bowl, described as 'Xuande marked' and attributed '15th century', and the large 'Jiajing marked' yelow/green garlic-headed vase attributed '15th/16th century' are all recent/modern copies/reproductions ...
I would tread very carefully ...
Stuart
@ming1449 Thank you, Stuart. I agree 100%, but the seller makes such a sincere guarantee, that I thought I might test the waters.
I have not bid yet. However, I have messaged the seller asking them if I buy an item, and afterwards Christie's says it is reproduction, whether they will accept a return for a full refund. I sent the message early today, so no response as of yet. If they respond, I will advise.
The Yongzheng bat bowl appears modern as well...strange mark and the overall design unappealing. A genuine one would surely bring $50,000 or more, so if they will honor their guarantee and I can buy it for a few thousand...it might be a worthwhile test.
However, I think the more likely scenario is for them to block me and not respond to my message. Guess I'll find out soon enough.
@greeno107 I think Peter used to feature this seller in his weekly videos, but they got in the habit of selling copies at some point.
@rahawkins I don't know what their history is, but the guarantee sounds and they make claims of being 100% certain the items are genuine. There must be something in the wording that protects them that I've missed, else they're going to get a lot of returns when buyers purchase items that should have $40k,50k, 60k+++ value, then call Sotheby's to consign and are then told the item is fake.
I know most major auction houses will only say publicly that an item 'does not meet the minimum threshold' to be offered, which doesn't explicitly mean it is fake. However, there are plenty of appraisal services that will put it in writing, and this seller doesn't put any threshold of proof needed to make a return...only that if your not 100% satisfied, you can return the item.
Maybe you can return it, but they keep your money, or resell the item and refund the difference of the 2nd sale from your purchase price.
It all seems highly suspect to me.
This is the last time they were mentioned.
@greeno107 Last week, I had a buyer return a Ming bowl that he had purchased for 200 usd because I also had a similar bowl up for auction, and he was afraid the auction item would go for a lower price, thus "impacting his investment" with a lower published sale record. It did go lower, for about 170 usd.
It's disappointing when I see obviously fake pieces in this category sell for more. The people buying them know that they are fake, but they are cocky, and think they can pass that off to someone else. It's like a Ponzi scheme right now.
- @rahawkins That sounds like a violation… returning an item because you sold a similar one fir less money - that’s crazy!
Did you watch Peter’s Ebay video?
Let me summarize- auctions no longer function profitably for sellers. Sell by Buy It Now.
Personally, I don’t like seeing the fraud sales operate, but I’m comforted know that these sellers are plaques by as much or more fraud by fake buyers or real buyers that manipulate the system.
Im probably up to 200 blocked buyers. I sell pretty much exclusively Buy Now. And, if I get the sense the transaction sounds suspicious- I cancel and refund, saving myself a world of aggravation.
Do I get lower payouts selling Buy Now - maybe. But it beats getting cheated on a high dollar item.
@greeno107 yeah, I saw the video. I had jury duty, and needed a quick buck so I did the auction, but I generally do only buy it nows.
@greeno107 hello... This piece sold for $1148 USD ! 😲
@superox Well, that is a lot for a fake, or a bargain for a genuine piece.
Based upon the overall quality of this collection and this piece, I believe the old saying has been proven - a fool and their money are soon parted.
The seller is offer 100% return guarantee, but in my opinion this is just good marketing.
They take the position of being a harmless 3rd party, acting as a broker, not the owner, which may keep their conscience clean, but it shouldn’t.
We all know that there are collectors who hold onto their personal beliefs that something is authentic, regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary. They are victims, in a way, of their own pride.
Self inflicted or not, the buyer who purchased a fake sold as genuine is a victim of fraud.
If the trade of antiques becomes little more than a game of hot potato, where one collector victimizes the next by constructing elaborate schemes to sell off their mistakes, then no wonder we’ve seen such a massive decline in the interest among younger audiences to collect.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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