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Came across this today. the tag lists it as a 1920's enamelled vase. I don't know much about cloisonne yet, but I'm wondering if they're 400 or so years off on their assessment? It looks pretty old to me. Also, I'm not sure what's up with the base. I think that brass ring is a separate piece, and the actual base and foot is concealed inside of it. Maybe it has a more narrow foot and they wanted a wider base for the stability of the lamp? But the comparables I could find looked like it would be more likely it would have a similarly wide base by original design, so I thought that looked a bit odd. It's a very tight seam at the point where that brass part is, so I actually couldn't tell by feeling that it is a different piece, but I think is has to be by the way it looks so different. If this is a Ming example, any rough guesses on what it could be worth having been lamped, etc? It's probably about 14 inches tall I'm guessing, and other than all those old pock marks (is that what you call them?) it looks to be in good shape at least what you can see of it. Thanks so much, and depending on your feedback I may be going back to buy this thing. Cheers! John
Hi John,
Interesting vase you have posted.
Not really my area of interest/other but I do not believe this is a general example of cloisonne. It is in my opinion an example of chinese canton enamel.
You will note that your example does not have the tell signs of wiring etc.
I am unable to determine the age by way of provided blurry pictures, however modern/fake examples tend to be light in weight. The overall quality looks to be of low quality, quickly adhered to. The base of cheap modern copies are normally sub-standard.
There are at this time a large amount of faked enamel/cloisonne objects being mass produced in China and subsequently flooding the market as republic period or earlier.
Based on the low quality of the enamels I think this vase is a modern copy and therefore of very little value.
Mark
Thanks for your thoughts, Mark. It does have wiring, it's just rather thick compared to other pieces that I've seen, and it's not gilt, so it just looks like thick, aged bronze. Maybe that is a sign of a particular period? I am also wondering if it could be a Japanese example, but I'm not having too much luck finding one similar. I didn't pick it up so i don't have a sense of weight yet. hopefully others will chime in as well.
John and Mark,
IMO this is a late 19th early 20th Chinese Cloisonné Hu form vase. Shape is well done, handles nicely done, pit marks and wiring for lamp indicate age from 1920 or earlier. Modern cloisonné is so obviously clean and this one definitely shows its age. I like this one.
George
I also think it is Chinese. It does look old, at least 1920s if not earlier as George says, but those photos are so blurry I couldn't be certain of that unless I could see it and feel the weight.
I can see what you mean about the base. I have seen vases like that, one was also drilled, but often they have a matching band at the top. This looks different from the rest. Maybe the original base was damaged and that was why it was made into a lamp.
I rather like it. If I were certain it didn't feel inappropriately light and kind of tinny and the price was good, I would be tempted to take the risk. If nothing else, it makes for an attractive lamp!
I have seen a few a few examples like this with an old Chinese form that date to the early 20th century , some even have a made in Japan mark on the base . I think the Japanese copied the Ming style cloisonne for export around that time and this could be one .
Carl
Thanks for your combined input that seems to sway on the positive side versus my optimistic viewpoint.
I have not always been correct in my assessment of items especially when the subject matter is blurry and not all that well presented/made.
I as always live and learn. 👍
Mark
This has been educational. Here's a smaller one that seems to have similar proportions that fits the Japanese early 20/late 19th C opinion. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/19th-century-japanese-bronze-enamel-cloisonne
Also, I noticed that the concept for the design seems to be similar to this famous old one, though much more simplistically done, with the 6 lotus flowers going around it, so I wonder if it is supposed to be loosely based on this type of design, and if it was meant for buddhist ritual use: http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2018/04/04/36293588.html
I'm still not clear on the value, but I think I'll go have another look at it and maybe bring it home.
The top link didn't work above. Here's the picture of the Japanese example I was trying to share:
So
Perhaps look at liveauctions past sales of chinese cloisonne vase. You may find something very similar to yours amongst the 21k examples.
If I may ask you, how much is the asking price?
Mark
Not expensive in my opinion if it dates from forums suggestions regarding period.
Just remember to feel the weight etc.
Mark
I went and had a second look. Decided not to buy it. That brass base actually is attached and part of the piece. It's not a bronze- too light and sounds tinny when tapped as well. I ended up feeling it's cheap and newish. Live and learn! I have to say that I find cloisonne to be challenging to learn about. If anyone has any good recommendations I'm all ears.
Interesting lightweight and tinny to boot!
Was actually surprised by the low asking price, since it appears to be from a retail outlet.
Collecting cloisonne enamel work is a whole area on its own. Unfortunately I don't know much about it and neither do I know anyone who specializes in said.
I am sure others maybe able to list and or point you in the right direction regarding this type of collecting etc.
Mark
I think we all live and learn to a greater or lesser degree - me more than most on here! But that is good, because it is a learning experience.
That foot was certainly peculiar and the pictures were very misleading as the item does look good for at least earlier 20th c. It just shows that you can't beat actually seeing and feeling the item. I think that is true of most antiques.
I have a cloisonné jar and lid in that very typical touristy kind of dragon pattern. I know it must be 70 or 80 years old at least as my great-uncle bought it back from his travels. It is a heavy, solid piece. Interestingly, it also has a rather distinctive smell. I don't know if that is because the lid is always on, or it had something in it once, or possibly it is just how an older piece smells, but maybe it is worth using our noses sometimes?
All I know about cloisonné is that Japanese items often have little circles around the borders. Irregular pitting is to be expected on older examples but actually, so is some loss of the enamel. Apparently, the wires should also be variable widths but I have always found that awkward to judge!
Not all old items are heavy. I sold a lovely little Japanese pot that was quite light (it also had a wonderful kind of sparkly gold colour) but it didn't have handles like this which I would expect to add some weight. I think though, that there is a difference between being lighter in weight and feeling cheap.
I love the one John has posted from Alain Truong! Wow, if only I could find something like that!
Happy New Year!
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