The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hi everyone,
I am new on the forum, I would like to have your opinion on this plate, do you think it could be an antique one? or a fake new as I am not sure about the color of the celadon and of the unglazed part of the rim.
Thank you in advance,
Thomas
@thomas deguen,
Welcome to this great forum.
Unfortunately I know little about these ming style wares. My area is jades and republic period porcelain.
However I suspect your dish is a modern interpretation. I believe this because there is absolutely no wear/other on the glaze. Also the stacking mark on the reverse looks to my eye to be manufactured.
I could of course be totally wrong in my thinking. So it's best to wait for other thoughts/opinions from members who are more familiar with this type of wares etc.
Very nice and detailed pictures by the way. 👍
Mark
Just adding a few additional pictures for the fun of it. I know who the seller is and for the time I've followed him he has listed some very interesting and potentially very valuable items but he also has fakes mixed in so be careful.
The plate is authentic I think but I'm not 100% certain. The color is correct for longquan as is the thinning of the glaze at the rim. Being 51 cm across it is rather impressive and and potentially very valuable. The smaller longquan plate he has for sale seems to have more wear to the glaze.
Here are some pictures of the other plate. Only 35cm across but still nice. In the last picture you can just slightly notice the wear of the glaze.
Agree with Mark, both plates look modern, no traces of age.
Birgit
Hi Thomas - and as with Mark, welcome to this wonderful forum ...
Looking at the images, I would concur with Mark and Birgit, this dish appears rather modern, IMO ...
The execution of the central interlocking cash lozenge design and the lotus scrolls to the cavetto and exterior look far to stiff when compared with genuine examples, and glaze surface seems to lack the tiny faults often seen on such wares ...
The unglazed base ring is where the dish was supported during firing. This piece displays some issues in this feature but, as this is an open forum, I will not divulged these ...
I would only add that the celadon-glaze on authentic examples displays wide tonal variation in colour ...
But just my thoughts and, as with Mark, I could well be wrong so lets wait and hear others opinions ...
Stuart
@ming1449 I have seen similar things said a few other times since joining the forum regarding not sharing certain things publicly about how to distinguish between authentic and fake. This seems odd to me. Why would we not share as much as possible with each other. Because fakers might be watching? I'm sure they have authentic pieces to study and use as templates anyway, so we should help each other out as much as possible in my opinion. What am I missing?
While we wait for others opinion I thought I would post some examples for comparison. This one from Kaminski, which is supposed to be a reputable auction house, compares well with color and base etc. (Interestingly that one appear in different color on some of the picture which might be due to change of tone in different lightning situations.) https://auctions.kaminskiauctions.com/chinese_large_longquan_celadon_charger-lot23652.aspx And this one from Bonhams also compares with color to some degree and seems to lack the wide tonal variation in color Stuart talks about. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24819/lot/8094/?category=list And to my experience longquan ware can appear in perfect condition without any wear like scratches an discoloration even though they are more than 500 years old. That is also the impression you get when to look at the pictures of longquan pieces at Christie's and Sotheby's. Now I'll see if I can find a longquan plate with a cash-pattern that matches.
@avatar This celadon stuff seems very tricky to know the difference between old and new. The more I learn about it the more I feel like I would not buy any without first handling many real and fakes and having a clear understanding of the nuances between them. And then if and when I do buy one I think it will have to be after handling it first. Pictures can be misleading with lighting variation, etc. I suppose top experts could tell from pictures alone,but for mortals like me, that seems too risky with these wares.
Another plate from Kaminski that also has a rather stiff cash pattern and lotus scroll and also compares with the base and the barbed rim and the the color matches well with the smaller plate on sale. Good size also. https://auctions.kaminskiauctions.com/Large_Chinese_Longquan_Porcelain_Charger-LOT27711.aspx?utm_source=barnebys&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=barnebys&utm_content=2019-06-01
The seller with plates also has this longquan censer on sale that leaves you with little doubts about authenticity. It is also stated to have an 'age guarantee' in the description. Unfortunately it is not so valuable. Nice that it comes with a box though.
Kaminski didn’t give an age for their plate and they probably knew why. To me at least it looks as recent as the others in question, the censer included, but I’m no expert for this kind of ware.
We can assume that the Bonhams one is the real stuff, unfortunately there’s just one picture.
Birgit
@ Mark and shinigami, thank you very much for your answer and the tips about tonal variation
Hi everyone,
I'm not sure about the plates. Due to the thickness of these plates, they often have no damage and can look like new, with only some scratches. You can find several authentic Ming pieces in reputable auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's, etc. , that look very shiny and new. But those are very rare. But it is always good, to handle these personally to be sure. So I have doubts about the plates, but the tripod Longquan censer is definitely a real one from the Ming Dynasty (15./16. century).
Chris
I hadn't noticed that Kaminski hadn't dated the second plate of theirs I linked to. I would have to agree that there is reason to worry as I have seen this practice done by them before, listing a brand new fake with no dating in the description. But the first plate I linked to is stated to be of the late Ming dynasty so this would have to be authentic otherwise they would jeopardize their reputation. But I'm sure you can find other examples that matches well and from more reliable sources if you search around on google. These were just the two examples that I found to be best for comparison when I did a search.
Latest Post: Large wooden vase Our newest member: Bivvo Degnaccio Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.