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Hey folks,
Just thought I'd ask on here about this charger, I was fairly confident about it when I was bidding, made myself nervous after I won it, But found a number of nearly identical examples, including unglazed bases on these (this was one concern of mine) on the Gotheborg forum, and handling it it appears to be just fine, although I think shipwrecked (the luster is dulled a bit/worn and whitish deposits in cracks and bubbles ect). Perhaps it is because my mother wants it, I don't want to give her a dud, that I want to run it by you all and see what you think.
The foot is somewhat tapered in and nicely trimmed off at the lip, there are chatter marks to the base as well as the walls of the foot, the pattern is easily found in the Lena Shoal Cargo book(will add a few pics later when I dig the book back out), the glaze is very comparable to another Ming bowl I recently sold kind of cool grey blue to it, similar feel (of course minus a lot of the luster,though it is still there), it is 32cm (though slightly warped so its fluctuates a few mm to both sides of the number), this is the size that is standard across the board for these.
I also added a comparison picture with another mid-Ming bowl I had, showing the feet, and the texture in hand feels very much the same.
Either way hopefully someone knows on here, or can point me in the right direction.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy -
This dish dates to the Hongzhi period so 1488-1506 …
As you mentioned, fifty four dishes with this design were recovered from the Lena Shoal junk, image 1 shows an example very similar to yours, and examples with both glazed and unglazed examples are known …
Diameter is usually around 31/34 cm, but occasionally much larger pieces were also produced, image 2, which is 51.5 cm across …
A nice example of type, I am sure your mum will like it …
Stuart
Stuart,
Thank you for alieviating my concerns.... An thank you for such wonderful examples!
I hope my mother likes it again when she gets back after the weekend, sometimes she says "I love it I want it", and then changes her mind, though in this case I think it is the best of the lots I won, so I suspect it will end up with her...
I ended up bidding on and winning 19 pieces all together, many of them I think are southeast asian export pieces, a few I have my doubts on, though they are possibly shipwrecked so the amount of degrading may also be what I am not accustomed to... I'm including the two that I have my doubts on. I was concerned primarily because no one really bid against me, that always scares me a bit.
I ended up buying what I think is a Song dynasty Fujian Kilns qingbai ewer, and a few more Hongzhi and Jiajing/wanli pieces, they arrive today so I will post them later, separately.
Thanks again,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy -
No issue with either of these, both know types …
Attached examples for comparison:-
Images 1/2:- Dish with identical composition, D. 20cm, attributed to Zhengde period, Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing …
Image 3:- Small dish, D. 18cm, illustrated ‘Chinese Blue and White’, pl. 77, pg. 173, exhibition catalogue held at the National Museum, Singapore, 1978 and attributed to 17th century then. Modern scholarship has revised the dating of these group to late 15th/early 16th century, so Hongzhi/Zhengde periods …
Unfortunately fakes of both types are not unknown, so one must be careful …
Stuart
Hi Jeremy -
The degradation seen on both dishes, especially the first, is probably the result of either burial or emersion in seawater over hundreds of years …
However, the fakers are now able to copy such effects, usually be placement in very high concentrations of salt water and artificially mimicking the movement of the sea with machines …
Stuart
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