The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
I picked this up a few days ago, been trying to figure out if this is authentic or a modern reproduction. I've watched A few of Peter's videos and I still cant come up with a educated decision. If it is modern could someone explain to me why. I would really like to know. Its about 22 inches wide.
Sorry for the photos be a little distorted. Hard to get decent photos, with it being so large
Hi Reeves,
I think the experts will confirm its a modern piece. Most obvious for me is the orange color on the back. The experts will point to the decoration not being fluid and artistic. Also no apparent signs of age on the dish. The shade of blue is also modern. I don’t necessarily think this is a “fake”, just a reproduction. Would be impressive to serve dinner on, maybe a Thanksgiving turkey would even fit.
Best, Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi Reeves,
Not going to be much use to you. What an impressive size 22 inches ! I can understand the difficulty in taking pictures. On my screen which is pretty small and of low pixel count, your photo's appear a little under exposed so can't tell the true color of the blue it appears to be very dark on my screen also the blue seems very even without much shading. This may not be the case in real life of course. I also can't see if it is entirely hand painted. How ever to my unrestrained eye the painting of the peacock seems a little stiff and if my arm was twisted and I had to venture a thought as to age I would hedge 20th century rather than antique. However you are fortunate that we have more than a few experts here who will no doubt give you a more informed answer based on the construction and color of the base as well as the painting style.
Cheers
Michael
Hi,
That is indeed an impressive size!
I also think it is modern. I find the decoration lacks spontaneity, fluidity. Basically it looks stiff and formal, as though someone has put a lot of effort into making it look like something else so it looks copied not created.
I did have an analogy but it was too grim for the start of the day! Besides, I am not an expert, so I could easily be wrong.
Julia
Hi -
This dish is modern ...
The motif combination of peacock/s amongst rocks and peonies was first seen on blue and white Yuan dynasty pieces, usually large jars (guans) or on one side of flat sided square shape flask. It then fell out of the potters repertoire in the early Ming dynasty until the mid 15th century, Zhengtong period, when this design was reintroduced in the minyao (private) kilns and is seen on meipings, jars and the central design on dishes. It then become one of the most popular central design seen on the late 15th/early 16th century dishes ...
However, this combination is unknown on the cavetto (sides) of Yuan/Ming pieces - which this piece is trying to copy - but overall drawing style, elements within indervidual motifs, blue/glaze tones, finish of the footrim and base colour are all wrong ...
Still - an impressive size ...
Stuart
Thanks you to everyone that commented. While I was doing my research I did notice that during the Yuan dynasty that this type of pattern was introduced with the Peacock. (Watership) had mentioned that the dead give away for him that it was modern was the orange colored base. In my ignorance I thought that was some type of iron oxide. So just for future reference, if I see a base with that color should I automatically assume it's a modern reproduction.
Hi Reeves,
I am far from an expert, have only been doing this seriously for under five years. Just to be clear. 🙂
Its tricky, because if its that exact shade of orange...then yes, its modern. But for someone beginning in the hobby, it can be difficult to discern a modern orange from a genuine old shade. Experts can take a half second glance and know immediately, but for someone just starting out, it can be virtually impossible. Whether or not a genuine antique of this exact type would have a rusty back...I don’t even know. Maybe one of the experts will be better able to answer.
take it with a grain of salt
Dear Reeves,
I'm guessing the orange color was an attempt to replicate the iron oxide orange/peach/pinkish tone apparent in the foot rims and botoms of antique pieces.
The good news is that you can use it, which I certainly would! If it were real Ming it would be too valuable to use as service.
One of these days I'd love to visit China and pick up a nice reproduction from Jingdezhen, maybe a large blue and white Ming style bowl to serve salads in. (Boy do I miss dinner parties!)
Regards & enjoy,
-Steve
Hi -
Attached images for comparison in the painting style variations of this design:-
1:- large flask, Yuan dynasty, ex Ardebil Shrine collection, now in the National Museum of Iran.
2:- large guan (guan), Yuan dynasty, British Museum London.
3/4:- large meiping, Ming dynasty Zhengtong period, 1436-49, the Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing.
5:- very large dish, D. 45cm, Ming dynasty, Zhengtong period, Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing.
6/7:- large dish, D. 32cm, Ming dynasty, Hongzhi period, 1488-1505, my own collection, acquired 20 years ago.
Note the differences in the painting styles between the pieces, the drawing of the motifs and the application of the cobalt(blue) tones, all differing quite remarkably from each period ...
I would concur with Todd @watership regarding the base on your dish been indicative of a modern piece trying to simulate Yuan/early Ming examples, but the colours and tones on authentic Yuan/Ming examples are known to vary widely ...
I hope these are of some help ...
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Wow, you actually own a near perfect piece for comparison, complete with an authentic, orangey base. That is great! And a very nice charger it is. Fascinating to see the progression and differences. Well done.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
I definitely see the difference, in the base, different shades of blues and the way my piece flows. With a side by side comparison. Mine does look stiffer. When I purchased it i was examining the peacocks and I thought they where done pretty good. But I definitely see a difference between mine and they it was done in the Ming Dynasty. Is it possible to hang this on the wall. I would love to use it as a dinner dish, but its going to take up way to much room. I hate to sell it, but I don't think I have anywhere to put it in my townhouse, besides hanging it on the wall.
I had an Imari charger hanging on the wall until the experts liked it and I decided I had better put it on a stand instead since the American spring type wall hangers place stress on the piece and cause damage. I have seen old hanging pieces with a metal frame work (probably European or custom made) that would not cause pressure stress to the piece. I have in the past hung an entire wall with vintage and antique plates with American spring type without causing any damage, but I may have been courting disaster.
I imagine your charger is quite heavy. You might consider using a shelf of some kind?
Hi Todd -
My pleasure to show this designs progression ...
Thank you for your kind words but, as mentioned early, late 15th/early 16th dishes with this central composition were very popular and numerous examples have survived, the Topkapi Saray Palace Museum, Istanbul alone holds 12 such dishes!!
These dishes usually have either a lotus or peony scroll to the cavetto - the chrysanthemum scroll on mine is a somewhat rarer type - but the cobalt tone is very black/greyish and white slip has been splashed on an area of the base, which subsequently ran ...?!🤔
It has some provenance, coming from an old English collection, originally sold Lot 377, Sothebys London 18/19th December 1973 ...
Stuart
Latest Post: I'm about to bid on this cabinet. Our newest member: Bivvo Degnaccio Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.