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Hi folks,
I'm a bit uncertain about the age of this lovely famille rose vase. It is a large one at 60cm. I was thinking late 19th, early 20th based on the foot, but I could be way off. What do you think?
Hope everyone is having an amazing weekend!
Best regards, Michael
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Yes I think you're right - an impressive vase !
tam
Hello Michael:
It's all a matter of personal taste. However, I find this vase somewhat over the top. It lacks the subtlety of most Qing vases. I don't know whether it's the photographic technique, but the unpainted parts of the porcelain lack the brilliant white color of late Qing/Republic-period vases. I think this vase could have been made between about 1950 and 2000. I don't think it's late 19th century.
Regards,
Errol
Hi Errol,
I think the photos were saved without proper color and light correction. I ran a couple of them through Photoshop to correct it. They are below.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Hi Michael:
Thank you, but to me the unpainted porcelain color still looks wrong. It has a dull grayish color and lacks lustre. This vase reminds me too much of a nightmare lidded jar I bought on eBay a few years ago for about $250 and that I try to keep out of sight. I think I paid $249 more than what it is worth! I think the quality of the painting is poor. I'm a little ashamed to post photographs of it here (see below), but the decoration looks similar to that of "your" vase. However, even this jar that I so dislike has a nice white porcelain in the unpainted areas.
Regards,
Errol
I think the enamelling on the two vases is very different - the second one has harsh colours and the birds (like the phoenixes) are not well-done.
Still , surely worth more than a few dollars , Erroll, I reckon , you could make a nice lamp from it. Or sell it on as 'C20th possibly republican ......'
On the first vase, the base look right for late 19thC to me , but it could be a bit later because some of the colours , like the yellow flowers , seem more modern - maybe this is very late qing or early Republican ?
The whiteness of the porcelain is in my view not a good indicator of age - they can produce very brilliant white porcelain now , although in the flesh the whiteness has a different (and not easy to describe ) quality from older stuff. But some old porcelain can vary tremendously in quality and shades of white.
tam
There are all those late 19th c blackbirds on it that Peter often talks about.
JUlia
Hello Julia and Tam:
Yes I think the blackbirds do suggest a late 19th or early 20th century origin. I did not mean to imply that a white lustrous porcelain means that a piece is old. I know contemporary versions can look like that. However, the dull grayish color shade of the unpainted parts of Michael's vase just seem unattractive to me from a purely aesthetic point of view. I'm attaching a phtograph of a Qianlong basin/charger from my collection. I love the contrast between the white porcelain and the painted parts of the piece.
Regards,
Errol
Thanks for the opinions. I think too that there is a clear difference in the details of the painting between your jar, Errol, and the vase I posted pictures of. I think it is most apparent in the decoration and details of the trees, but also in the bird details, flower details, etc.
Since I haven't seen this vase in person yet, I cannot comment on the whiteness of the porcelain, on my screen it looks like the porcelain has a very light green tint to it. Photos can lie in both directions, especially when it comes to colors if the camera hasn't been white balance calibrated, corrected for light conditions and not saved in a web compatible color mode (sRGB). Especially the last one can really mess up the color palette on a picture when displayed in a browser.
I looked through a few of the famille rose vases on Rob Michiels site (the past auctions section is a treasure trove of info and amazing pictures) to check if the foot was at least right, and at least that much seems to be consistent with a possible late 19th century date.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
I have some new info, seems that the decoration is on a celadon ground. I should have noticed this earlier, but pictures can be misleading, especially if your attention is elsewhere. ?
The color difference is most visible if you look near the foot, it changes from white to celadon just before the first border decoration.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Dear Michael:
I think you are correct now. I too was correct in pointing out in my initial response to your post that the vase's ground appeared atypical. The vase does have a celadon ground as indicated by your photograph of the foot with the transition from white to celadon. However, it's a very pale celadon unless the photographic technique used has made it appear that way. I'm attaching photographs of what a true celadon ground looks like on a 19th century Qing vase in my collection decorated in the famille rose style with butterflies. Thanks for posing another interesting challenge as you usually do! You always make us think and that is good!
Regards,
Errol
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