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@pbarski93 I'll email you in a bit. Mine is [email protected]
Well im back to square one a bit on this jar.
I reached out to Allison Carter who solely studies Khmer and Cambodian historical culture. Its not actually Khmer...
She asked her colleague and she believes the foot and clay actually match up to China's Guangdong region, maybe by the Shiwan kilns.
Its not every day research gets up ended like this but im gonna have to dig again on this. Going back to earlier info posted, it does add up a bit when comparing both Song/Jin pieces and even Yuan foot techniques.
I may need to reach out to Peter again with more updated info. I see where he would've seen similar before given how the mouth looks, and the shape. Another note is the cobalt may actually be Iron reduction created, and it fits back to the glazes noted earlier about Tenomku style glazing.
Ahh the search continues!
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That is a shame for you, but I am not surprised it isn't Khmer and I am sure you will enjoy the research.
Did she give you an idea of the period it was made?
@julia Its no worries, I actually welcome having existing research blown out of the water from another expert since it helps refine what we know or may know already. Ill keep digging and figure it out eventually with someone probably soon.
She did not but if we use the information from Peter it sits it around 12th to 14th century still. I followed up asking if she might have an idea of its age too but we'll see if she replies or not.
It would sit it with some earlier guesswork about it being from the maybe the song, Jin or Yuan dynasty if that age is to be believed. The age would make sense as there are other works from this period that match that foot and clay, along with the glaze condition.
Hello All 😊
Interesting piece! Thanks for sharing and documenting the journey, Preston.
Is there any chance all the writing/constellation parts are all part of one (maybe incomplete) dragon in clouds pattern?
I don't think I've ever seen this Jun-like glaze on any old SE Asian pots. Maybe it was the color that tipped @Julia off to Khmer being unlikely? My memory is that Khmer glazes were all iron based, so only browns and greens.
To my eyes the colors are too atypical, and the glazer too thin (as per those streaks), for period Song/Yuan Jun. The clay also looks too grainy and yellow (though that could be photos) for Jun.
Shiwan leaded glazes might be a closer match, for color and consistency, some examples here. Koh also mentions that Vietnam potters had similar Shiwan-Jun glazes from 19th century on.
Let us know what you find!
@craig thanks for your points of interest and no worries on the documentation here!
Regarding the potential cloud and dragon design, I think this is correct. I took a hard look over and reinterpreted the motif designs through Chinese intentions and dragons do seem to fit better once the points are roughly connected over. They trace well once you cross check some points and references to Dragon Jars. Before, these designs were following symbolic patterning around from foot to mouth. The rough form and faded/filled lines makes it difficult to really trace these. The one on the side without the tenmoku style glaze effect is probably the best example, where its head is prominent, the body is long and reaching down to the bottom half of the jar with its tail covered by the tenmoku glaze. The feet are loosely felt or seen. There may be another coming from the sprouting shaft, reaching left, where the tenmoku glaze reaches its highest point on the dominant side. Cloud motifs would make sense too and it almost follows a concept of a Shan Shui in style with the tenmoku glaze acting as rising mountains, maybe something else entirely. Maybe flaming pearls too but it doesn't seem likely with how many are there.
You're right about the glaze effect too, its mainly just unique to China from research around. Generally monochromatic and half glazes would be seen in most regions around from what i have seen through online collections and research papers. Some Thai shapes do relate but not exactly to form or within the clay composition. The collar mouth is the closest to Khmer and Thai as well but its possible this was intentional for export trade. Ultimately though Khmer will generally always be brown or green.
The clay in terms is also pretty close to what I can find from Shiwan area wares too. Its at least in a similar color tone and the clay material is close to a visual match. I'd say its darker near the glaze, a bit lighter in buff down the side to the bottom aside from the kiln furniture stack scars.
After being turned over back to the China origin direction, Jianyao is a really close example of glaze work to consider this towards, but the colors are imbalanced and abstracted plus its not the right region of affiliation. Ie more green than browns, and less direct intentional pattern and more story telling.
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6018818
It would be interesting as a one of a kind in concept so far since so little evidence exists of another even by direct glaze considerations. So far, an anomaly but I hope to consult the right specialists next to determine it further.
I may have found a more definiative link and it may actually be Jizhou/Fujian.
When comparing the bottom jar of a pair of jizhou tortoishell glazed vases it does appear that there are clear resemblances in the clay and setting. Side by side combination of the right vase do show a pretty good comparison of similarities of the clay and setting.
When comparing to a pair of Jizhou green and brown glazed tea bowls, a few ticks line up with the green to the jar, the angled foot outward and then inward on both the jar and the bowls, even the vases.
If we imagine the glaze being pulled back up further, the same angled foot approach does appear in the jar's form.
It seems more plausable in this direction. It also makes sense for the region too. Some coloring may be different here and there but characteristically, it begins to line up.
Thoughts?
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