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Hi all,
I've seen some remarkable copies of Chinese export porcelain recently. Peter featured it recently, but I think it might be a copy. What do you all think?
Suspect example:
Authentic examples:
- https://www.galerienicolasfournery.com/collection/a-chinese-famille-rose-plate-decorated-with-the-judgment-of-paris-qianlong-period-2/
- https://www.galerienicolasfournery.com/collection/a-chinese-famille-rose-plate-decorated-with-the-judgment-of-paris-qianlong-period/
- https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/chinese-export-art-property-tibor-collection/chinese-export-porcelain-judgment-paris-dish-54/141579
- https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-6195848
- https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-5033504
The only example I found that is near-identical to the suspect example is this one that sold at Christie's in 2013, but at a "Christies Interior" sale rather than Chinese Export Porcelain sale:
Are these differences simply variations in decoration, or are the Christies and Hudson ones very good copies? The central scene looks very detailed and well-shaded, but then the faces look off, and the background mountains and foliage seem "flat", and the border decoration also seems almost like the 20th c. Samson copies. Contrasting this, the back looks like it's genuinely 18th c., but we can't forget the number of blanks pieces that were shipped to Europe. Although this last point is not specifically on the merits of the plate itself, I think it certainly adds something that the sale is filled with copies, and mixed in with genuine antiques. Would love to hear y'all's thoughts.
Kind regards,
John
It's a interesting subject matter. But my knowledge of these is very limited.
The way the scroll is done on the suspect example looks stiffly painted. The foliage and tree trunk look hideous and out of proportion.
However the reverse is very convincing.
I think it's a high quality copy. The quality of the images is low quality.
Mark
Thank you, Mark! I appreciate the input, and am glad it's not just me that thinks it may be a copy! My experience in this area is also very limited - I am mostly book-learned, which doesn't teach much on how to tell fakes from genuine pieces.
John,
I saw this plate in the video and went to check it out.... I was very skeptical of this plate to begin with, but after viewing the rest of their auction, and given my doubts, I really do not think it is real. The reverse of the plate is part of what troubles me most, I have seen many fakes coming onto the market recently that mimic 18th century export wares phenomenally, and the backs appear to of the period. This one however is quite lacking on the front, it is very unrefined in its depiction of the surroundings and also too refined in depictions of the main subjects, the border looks far too stiff. also to note is the very questionable punch bowl of the Judgement of Paris in the auction, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.
About a year ago there might have been one of these plates every two months or more, and now they are popping up every few days it seems. After you helped me figure out the Valentine pattern mug, I have been searching regularly for similar pattern pieces, and it seems that it is a similar situation, though having a real one in hand certainly helps when comparing it side by side.
Just as an interesting side note, look at their address on google street view, its very suspicious for a business that has been there for 20 years.
Jeremy
I am in complete agreement, Jeremy. I am slightly terrified at how genuine the backs of these can look. I think the general belief that there are no good copies of export porcelain no longer holds true. I completely agree on the Judgment of Paris bowl, and I noticed it isn't on the global member's page either. Something else concerning on top of the seemingly period foot rims is the choice of decoration! Some of the decorations being copied are quite obscure even for a Chinese export enthusiast.
This other suspect piece in the auction is equally concerning (also on the global member's page):
Genuine Example:
This is not an issue confined to this auction house. I saw this copy pop up last month in an AH in the UK:
Genuine Example:
I wish I kept better bookmarks of pieces I think are fakes that I come across, but these are the only ones I have that are readily available to me.
I am not as much ‘up’ on exports plates, never mind specifics like the Judgment of Paris but I generally go by an informal rule , if you see one, that’s good, if you two in a short period that’s probable, if you see three in a short period! Be aware.
Ron
That's a good rule, Ron! I've made a couple of poor purchases lately and I generally haven't shared them, but I am approaching everything with a more critical eye now.
There's definitely a factory churning these out. Someone found a copy of Hervouet & Bruno over there and are choosing the obscure patterns that are difficult to find comparisons for!
These ones are different pairs! My last comparison before I overwhelm this post:
- https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/123146588_pair-chinese-export-saucer-plates-european-erotic
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/265528852879?hash=item3dd2c0c18f%3Ag%3AQQgAAOSwaQ5h8MN2&nma=true&si=YBUqlmcwGuKsyj%252BCUdU%252F%252Bt3VNJE%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Genuine Example:
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