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Hi!.....I would like to know out of curiosity...are these Ivory?....they are listed as Ivory at a Estate sale....I'm not sure of the price.....I don't know what Ivory truly looks like in person....whether its white, off white or is yellowish to brownish with age......heavy, light weight cold or warm to touch etc.....if someone could share their expertise, that would be great!.......
Hi Alesia,
Judging by the second last picture I would in my opinion believe these are highly probable elephant ivory. You will see the criss - cross grain on the base. I don't think they are old. Perhaps 1950's - 1960's. They appear to be in good shape and a good size.
Once again the pictures are terrible. I must admit at first glance I thought they were resin but I don't think they are. If genuine would be worth buying at the right price etc.
I have posted previously helpful hints in identifying genuine ivory. Just click on the search button above.
Overall if I were you I would definitely try and buy these at the right price of course bearing in mind that I can't definitely state they are genuine without further examination.
Mark
I would be cautious with these - if real elephant ivory they will fetch a high price. The bases look fine , but the rings and lines could have been faked - you should be able to see this kind of natural grain on all parts of the object. Sadly the photos are too poor to judge effectively. The 2 character mark is Qianlong , which is a bit strange in itself .
The variable discoloration - to yellow and brown is very typical of old ivory.
tam
This is a bit of a newbie question, but would CITES regulations make it illegal to buy and sell these if they are post 1947 like @imperialfinegems says?
Philip
Hi QingKing,
As far as I am aware the regulations you refer to are predominantly to do with import and export of ivory. It's illegal to import/export to almost all countries around the world.
I think in the USA as well as were I reside in Australia one can freely buy and sell ivory. However you can't legally export or import it. I do see ivory being sold at local auctions etc. I have read recently that some countries have made it illegal to trade in ivory even if legally obtained after 1947.
The schreger lines are always prominent at the base of ivory figures if from elephant tusks. However depending on the angle of cutting it will be visible at other parts but not always (rare). However I am cautious with these as fake lines are now being produced etc. I also believe that if genuine they are from an Asian elephant rather than African.
If genuine, despite being relatively modern they should bring a good price.
In addition to schreger lines and angles therein one can use a black light. All ivory fluorescent a bluish-white. Bone also has a similar fluorescent. Plastic and resin will appear a full blue.
Mark
It depends on a variety of levels - and I'm not sure where the pieces in question are being bought/sold, but likely it's not a good idea to disclose such on a public form that has such high visibility and data cache for coming across down the line.
CITES is nuanced in itself; and applies to UK/EU and others to varying degree - so I'll speak in my own experience being based in the United States:
I will simply advise anything bought or assumed as ivory should be under the pretense of expecting to only enjoy them, to not being able to resell it.
Some states allow local sale, but even this, will be subject to applicable laws and you must also provide proof of provenance stating it was imported before a certain date/timeframe - and this also has relative differences in timeframes and cut offs for if the piece in question is Ivory from Asian Elephants, or African Elephants.
Interstate commerce (selling over state lines) is generally illegal for many states; CITES is not (in the US) approached as a guide for if you can import it or export it - but rather a series of regulations to allow the degree of commerce that can be commenced based on the aspects of date and degree where ivory pieces (and other certain materials deemed restricted) were imported.
There are stipulations regarding which ports of authorized import they were brought in from, documentation to be obtained, and a whole slew of other issues tied to this matter.
As for the piece itself, these do not look to be something that would be worth the time/effort in jumping through the above hoops if your goal is resale in one of the areas implied where it is difficult enough already.
Based on your inclusion of information being that they're sold via an estate: good luck getting that provenance established, and keep in mind you'll need to have lab tests done to confirm the age of the pieces in certain situations, and other sub-stipulations.
Additionally, before the ban and before regulations/crackdowns were put into place on the sale of ivory - these were widely popular as tourist type wares during the 20th century in China; many during post-WW2.
Schreger lines in themselves are also nuanced; as of course there are the general intersectional attributes of the lines themselves that can hint at a piece's nature and what type of ivory it is; but keep in mind online photos will not be sufficient for most to deem certain with 100% accuracy, and a high powered magnification unit or even microscope will be needed to gauge the nature with higher probability.
The lines on genuine pieces can also be extremely subtle.
There are some thoughts, hope they were of help.
Best,
-JRN
@imperialfinegems @jrn Thanks for the thorough replies. I suppose it varies from country to country, because where I live you need to prove the object is from before 1947 to sell at all. The police has even done a few raids on auction houses who they deemed didn't have sufficient documentation on ivory objects they sold.
Philip
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