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Hey all,
So I got this a while ago and I don't think I posted it... I believe it is Chinese export for the Islamic market. Condition is not that great, but at least its not broken, and honestly I thought it was decorated nicely.
Anyone have any experience with these wares?
Jeremy
Not sure if I even have the writting the right way up...lol.
I would have said that too, but I have just had a look around and there are indeed plates with similar looking script, that don't necessarily have a particularly middle eastern-style design.
I am not certain which way round it goes either. 😊
Hi Jeremy,
I like it very much. As usual, I am impressed by your finds. The Islamic market for Chinese export porcelain can be broken down into three different regions: 1) India, 2) Qajar Persia (Iran), and 3) Ottoman Empire (Turkey).
It is definitely Islamic market Chinese export, but I am unable to help with the inscription. If Indian market, it may be in Urdu. If Persian, it may be in Farsi. If Ottoman, it may be in Turkish. All three markets additionally use Arabic. My gut feeling is Persian, but the inscription may be more definitive if not in Arabic. Inscriptions were usually of dates, names, verses, or poems.
I wish I could help further, but there is so little information out there for these as far as I can tell. This pattern/inscription is not illustrated in Nadler's China to Order, or Howard's Made in China, The Choice of the Private Trader, or China for the West. I've also tried (and failed miserably) to use Allen's guide to reading Islamic date inscriptions.
Kind regards,
John
Thanks John,
Persian market makes sense, as I have found a few similar patterned plates attributed to the Persian market. Its pretty amazing how little info there is for the Islamic market Chinese export, compared to others.
I have a friend who reads Arabic coming by next week, maybe he can confirm what it says.
Jeremy
Aren’t Persian export pieces older than those for the European market?
Sally
Yes, the lack of resources is unfortunate, but I really do think Nadler nails this special China trade area better than the other sources. Would love to hear what your friend says about this plate! I do hope it is a name rather than a date or verse.
Sally - I am not sure about the origins of the Chinese export porcelain trade with Persia, but I would assume early pottery and porcelain would've traveled along the silk road, which I believe is the origin of the cobalt blue pigment used in early blue and white wares during the Yuan dynasty. That's an interesting question that I've not looked into yet. However, the export trade continued through Qajar Persia through to the 19th century. One of my favorite Persian market export pieces is the service made for the Governor of Isfahan in 1879:
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5287088
Rose Kerr: „Chinese Export Ceramics“ has a chapter about exports to the Middle East. I couldn’t find a similar decoration to your plate there.
Birgit
Just watched his lecture on pre European Chinese/Arab/ India trade routes and the cross pollination of ideas and designs. I found it really interesting, others here might find it interesting as well.
Ron
Take note @38 minutes. A blue and white plate with a central square design filled with a pattern similar to Jeremy’s.
It was absolutely fascinating! Thank you!
John,
That punch bowl is something else!
I was poking around the internet looking for examples and found this from the Nadler collection, not sure if this is what you meant, but I think page 144 has a very similar plate.
Now I have another book to read..... but I think everyone here could benefit from reading through it.
Jeremy
Thanks, Jeremy! I have just downloaded it. There are some lovely pieces in there.
What a great resource, thanks Jeremy. I now have some thing to read with my morning tea.
Ron
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