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Is this vase Qianlong mark and period or a later copy?

 
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
28/12/2020 11:27 pm  

@greeno107  Here is an armorial bowl foot I have access to from Qianlong period that I think probably has a very similar color and quality. Please imagine nice natural light falling upon it like in yours. 

 

This post was modified 4 years ago by johnshoe

   
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Topic starter 29/12/2020 7:34 am  

Good morning! @ greeno107 That's a very nice vase you have there. And you got it for $8? Amazing! I wonder if you sold it at auction and how much it went for? It compares with some very fine falangcai mallet vases sold at Christie's in 2012. https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5633495 https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5633494

This post was modified 4 years ago by avatar

   
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(@avatar)
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Topic starter 29/12/2020 8:14 am  

And you are sure it actually is Qianlong period? It seems a nearly identical vase to that of yours but dated to the Guangxu period was available in 2019 but left unsold. It must be a copy of yours. What a small world we live in ...  https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/AN-EARLY-20TH-CENTURY-CHINESE-FAMILLE-ROSE-MALLET-VASE/196-early_20th_century-16.10.19-hannam


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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29/12/2020 11:02 am  

@avatar Thank you! It brought 2.2 million due to a repair to the mouth and lack of provenance.  The prior owner inherited the piece. His family were working class from New York, but the house was filled with great art and antiques, so somebody along the way had money and good taste.

I sold it in Beijing, I got paid, and yes...the fakers were quick to reproduce.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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29/12/2020 11:07 am  

Just to clarify, 2.2 million USD....hammered at 15 million yuan.

I can't open the photo of the vase that sold in 2019, but the detail falls way short.

Here is mine...


   
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Topic starter 29/12/2020 12:32 pm  

Incredible! What auction house was it?


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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29/12/2020 3:32 pm  

https://www.johan.cn/johan/index.html


   
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Topic starter 30/12/2020 11:33 am  

Good old Johan's! I've used that site a lot for reference in the past. But now I found an article regarding the vase sold at Cambiaste. https://artslife.com/2017/12/22/oltre-2-milioni-e-per-larte-orientale-da-cambi-dipartimento-dorato-della-maison/ Translating with google I get this:

Absolute top lot of the auction was an important Chinese double-bodied vase in polychrome enamelled porcelain, the work of Tang Ying, an artist active between the Yongzheng and Qianlong periods, passed to the new owner for the considerable sum of € 681,500. The works of this author are unique in form and decoration and the inscriptions were made for this object only, once. It happened, explains Dario Mottola, that if the quality of the works was not satisfactory for the emperor, they remained with the artists who had performed them. It is the case of this polychrome vase that if it had also had a lid, continues the expert of the Oriental Art department, it could probably have obtained up to 3 million euros.

Tang Ying was the supervisor of the imperial kiln, the guy whose seal your mallet vase is decorated with, and thus the vase must of the Qianlong period and not 19th century as it was described.

This post was modified 4 years ago by avatar

   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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30/12/2020 12:45 pm  

I don't read Chinese, but do you think the characters are drawn by the same hand of Tang Ying?

The conjoined vases' witting looks loose to me, and I zoomed the details of the flowers....they don't look right. I have a book of the famous falengcai of the Kangxi, Yongzheng, and Qianlong....let me find it and I will post some comparative photos of museum pieces.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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30/12/2020 1:32 pm  

 

@avatar Here's the book plus some photos I've taken of just a few examples of its content. I seem to have forgotten that it just contains Yongzheng examples, but these are museum examples of Tang Ying works nonetheless, so the quality in the Qianlong should be the same if it was actually made by Tang Ying.

It does appear that numerous examples have both calligraphy and a bottom reign seal. however, a 4 character square seal, not a 6 character mark. Now, notice the loose writing and hollow strokes of the conjoined vase, not to mention the rendering is just no where near as detail as it should be for a genuine Tang Ying piece.

Here's a close up screen shot if the rendering on the conjoined vase. Keep in mind that my photos of the photos in the book are not as vibrant, but that's the effect of my photos. The conjoined vase is surely wanting in quality.

 

This post was modified 4 years ago 2 times by Greeno107

   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7066
30/12/2020 5:49 pm  

Hi greeno107 and avatar, 

Here are a couple of examples of tang ying sold/offered by sotheby's. Please carefully note the style and angle of the calligraphy along with the seal/read mark. Is the painting style similar or different? 

The first one was attributed to said artist with a excellent write up etc on both examples. 

The second one is a plaque by said artist. It sold for $275000. I personally think that was a very good buy! I was expecting it to fetch considerably more. Given the recent prices achieved by later republican artists such as Wang Dafan. 

Mark 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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