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either those are some high end copies or those are legitimate multi million dollar pieces found in an European collection:
1 - famille rose Qianlong piece:
if you compare it to the Famille rose palette shown in this video of peter combs it's identical:
here is what I found in the same collection, I sent this dish to Sotheby's and they refused it.
and lately this fish jar: It looks almost identical to the ones in museums and in Sotheby's previous sells:
here is some sort of comparison
all this pieces are from the same seller/ collection, I am not sure if these are real or not, any help from you guys would be awesome :
@jeremy @bartholin @julia @tam18 @johnshoe
@imperialfinegems @xin_fawis
@shinigami @brettm @plcombs
@watership @short-dong
@sharonp @nicdan @ronm
@ming1449 @gfhandel
@clayandbrush @john-steward
According to the experts, some of the fakes are getting scary in the quality of reproduction and more difficult to spot, which is one reason major auction houses are relying on provenance to help insure less chance of selling a fake. As is often said on the forum, you need to see and hold the piece to have a better chance to weed out the fakes. The fakes that I am likely to see in the backwater are not great in quality and easy to give a pass. Sharon
@sharonp yes, this is so scary if those are fakes, what do you think about them Mr. Sharon if you come across one of them especially the first one! if it is a copy what vase is it copying?
Dear Ibrahim,
If that is an European collection, it is an European collection of fakes.
If you do not have a solid experience, stay away from such type of sellers. If a seller has many things of high value, why should him sell them to you and not to Sotheby’s?
Do you have an idea of the value of the dish that has been refused by Sotheby’s? Should it have that value if it can be easily found on a venue like that, although I do not know which is?
Where do you see similarity between the Qianlong marked vase and the famille rose item shown by Peter, which by the way is not Qianlong?
Strong suggestion: do not buy, nothing, nowhere, and learn first. Or you will inevitably throw out money for really nothing.
How to learn? Stop looking at eBay, and look to Museums, good books, and so on.
Regards,
Giovanni
@sadoq95 First thing, take the advice of Giovanni. The chances of coming across a genuine piece amongst the dross, while not impossible, is probably equivalent to your chances of winning the lottery, not very likely. Especially in Europe, where knowledgeable collectors would be competing for genuine pieces. Sharon
Hi Ibrahim,
The vase is a later 20th century copy. It's trying to copy a Qianlong of sorts to early 19th century but not well done.
The figures are static and appear to have nothing in harmony with each other. They are just painted there with no thought. The top and bottlom rim are wrong but trying to copy a republican theme. Which is what I think the faker was trying to do. Not a Qianlong example but a republican one. Which is a big problem at the moment with copies of republican pieces. Some are exceptionally well done.
The dragon dish is a joke. Poorly painted.
I echo the post and thoughts by others here. In addition don't try and cover the entire field. But rather start on a period like for example republican. Once you have grasped that area of study you can move onto another.
A good library of reference books is essential. Not necessary to have hundreds of reference material but I would encourage you to have at least the top four for that particular period of interest. Visit to museums to see the quality etc etc. Obviously you can't handle them but you can at sotheby's, christies and bonhams.
Avoid smaller auctions unless you seek independent opinions. Ebay is awash with fakes and can be difficult to navigate.
Mark
Like Mark, I also only echo the pervious comments. I am so pleased you asked before buying any of these.
I would also suggest that you watch Peter's videos on YouTube and study some of the catalogues in the research section. It is all free, it doesn't beat handling items, but it well help.
Hi Ibrahim, I can only agree with everything said so far. As you say you have sent the yellow dish to Sothebys I hope you haven’t bought it already and wasted money. My advice is: don’t try to find hidden treasures, neither on Ebay nor elsewhere. Start learning by reading books and buying modest items from reputable dealers to get an idea how they look and feel. You can always resell as your knowledge progresses.
Birgit
If it was real it would be in a major auction house. When all major or reputable auction houses have rejected it then it goes to eBay. There are one in a million grandma attic one offs. But they are gone like instant. If you don’t have enough experience to tell the difference do what I do. Hunt shops and buy cheap. I might end up with some junk but it didn’t cost much. And once in awhile I strike gold. When you have bought enough junk you most likely have paid the tuition.
@lotusblack Just amassing cheaply bought items one could end up like these Ebay sellers with a garage full of bad stuff they believe is Ming and try to sell for hilarious prices. I’m sure you had already built some knowledge base before buying, because you can detect the good things when they appear.
Birgit
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